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Old 15-01-23, 20:06   #11
.snake.
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Yes, but there's nothing particularly unusual or difficult or socially-unacceptable about it, so it doesn't really speak to any great sacrifice on Lara's part. If Croft Senior tried to kick his adventurous star-athlete daughter out of the house and cut off any inheritance because she refused to honour a betrothal at the age of 25, he'd be the one smeared in the tabloids for it, not Lara. British aristocrats who would even attempt it barely exist in the year of our lord 2020. It feels... anachronistic.
This story doesn't take place in the 2020s though (as far as I know?).

Since Amunet is staying true to the original bio, I'm assuming with Lara's birthday in 1968, it means her Himalayan-crash-at-21 happen in 1989. So that means the era is the late 80s/early 90s, and I'm pretty sure that during those decades a British aristocratic family would have a pretty conservative mindset about what their daughter can and cannot do.

I mean, look at Princess Diana in the 1990s. While the masses favored her, the media was mixed about her (both worshipping and slandering her), but the royal family definitely didn't like her rebellious nature. I know the Crofts aren't the royal family, but I think there is a strong parallel between Lara's and Diana's fiery spirit.
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Old 15-01-23, 20:07   #12
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I'm not sure if your commenting on TR as a whole or on my fic in particular, but in the case of my fic, her father didn't kick Lara out of the house, she chose to leave. Also, it's not just because she broke of the engagement, that was just the last straw that provoked this last argument.
Hmm. I suppose that's fair. I guess the Downton allusion and .snake. talking about oppressive upbringings had me assuming a few things.

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I mean, look at Princess Diana in the 1990s. While the masses favored her, the media was mixed about her (both worshipping and slandering her), but the royal family definitely didn't like her rebellious nature. I know the Crofts aren't the royal family, but I think there is a strong parallel between Lara's and Diana's fiery spirit.
Okay, but was Diana actually disowned?

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Old 15-01-23, 20:15   #13
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Okay, but was Diana actually disowned?
No, but Lara was.
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Old 15-01-23, 20:28   #14
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No, but Lara was.
Again, maybe this isn't the scenario Amunet was going for, but then... how is this analogous? Diana divorced Charles (in exchange for a generous settlement and masses of public support) because they had a loveless marriage and he was cheating on her, as I understand it.

This isn't exactly her parents declaring her persona-non-grata and stripping her of assets for... breaking off her engagement with Charles in the first place to focus on career? Even in the early 80s, I'd consider that a stretch of the imagination.
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Old 15-01-23, 20:41   #15
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This story doesn't take place in the 2020s though (as far as I know?).
I intentionally tried to leave out any reference that could date the story so that it could work as intended in the late 80's of the original bio but also in a possible floating timeline if the classic bio were ever to return outside of the 90's. But yes, in my head, this fic was definitely not taking place in the 2020's.

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Since Amunet is staying true to the original bio, I'm assuming with Lara's birthday in 1968, it means her Himalayan-crash-at-21 happen in 1989. So that means the era is the late 80s/early 90s, and I'm pretty sure that during those decades a British aristocratic family would have a pretty conservative mindset about what their daughter can and cannot do.
I think even nowadays, it's not that much of a stretch to imagine that a British aristocratic family could still hold very conservative ideals. Hell, it doesn't even need to be an aristocratic family.


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Hmm. I suppose that's fair. I guess the Downton allusion and .snake. talking about oppressive upbringings had me assuming a few things.
So I take it you haven't actually read it then? Well, the Downton Abbey reference is literally just an easter egg. A line I gave Lord Croft. Sure, there's some dynamics that might be reminiscent of the series, but that's more to do with family dynamics than actual setting, imo.
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Old 15-01-23, 21:38   #16
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Again, maybe this isn't the scenario Amunet was going for, but then... how is this analogous? Diana divorced Charles (in exchange for a generous settlement and masses of public support) because they had a loveless marriage and he was cheating on her, as I understand it.

This isn't exactly her parents declaring her persona-non-grata and stripping her of assets for... breaking off her engagement with Charles in the first place to focus on career? Even in the early 80s, I'd consider that a stretch of the imagination.
That's definitely not the scenario in my fic.

What I was (trying) to go for was two very obstinate people, with conflicting worldviews and neither of them willing to compromise.

Let me try to sum it up:

Lara had always had that thirst for adventure and for the most part she was left unchecked by her parents until the age of 16 with the Black Isle incident. I imagined her parents loosing it when realizing what happened and how she almost died. So they try to "tame" Lara no more expeditions like Cambodia, no more daydreaming of adventure, time to come down to earth and start thinking of her future. So the following years Lara focuses on her studies, starts a relationship, gets engaged, but all the while still craving adventure.

Then she has her crash in the Himalayas and not only does she survive but it turns out into a thrilling experience, and it puts everything in perspective for her. So when she goes back home, Lara is adamant on taking control of her own life and pursuing her own passions. And so she starts going on dangerous adventures, barely spending anytime home.

Her father disapproves for the reasons I already mentioned in a previous reply (it doesn't really matter whether the tabloids would take her side or not, it's about what Lord Croft believes would happen and he believes her behavior would reflect poorly on his reputation) and the two have a conflictuous relationship and it all culminates when Lara breaks of the engagement. There's some level of resentment from Lara for spending years living according to someone else's expectations and she's unwilling to compromise again. They have an argument and Lord Croft ends up threatening to cut of her monthly allowance in an attempt to dissuade her from continuing with the expeditions which prompts Lara to instead choose to leave home.

Now my fic ends here, but my head canon is that while this didn't make her stop, it did slow her down as without her monthly allowance, Lara couldn't go on as many expeditions. Her great aunt offers to support her, but Lara refuses as she wants to prove that she can make it on her own. She turns to writing, which turns out to be a success as she is able to continue to fund her lifestyle this way. Then at around 28 (just before TR1) her great aunt dies and she inherits the manor and most likely a sizable fortune with it.

Now her father, seeing his daughter's success maybe ends up regretting his harsh attitude, but is too proud to admit it. It's only after TR4, when Lara is presumed dead and he visits her memorial that he realizes how foolish he was to allow his pride to rob him of a relationship with his daughter. After Lara's return to the land of the living, I imagine he would try to reconnect with Lara. Haven't decided on what her response would be.
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Old 16-01-23, 11:08   #17
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I think even nowadays, it's not that much of a stretch to imagine that a British aristocratic family could still hold very conservative ideals. Hell, it doesn't even need to be an aristocratic family.
They could hold those ideals as individuals, sure. But if you're going to talk about "he would be also concerned about reputation and what the tabloids might write about his daughter and how that reflects on the family" then you're presuming the existence of a wider set of societal norms and taboos where breaking off engagements to go gallivant around the world is Just Not Done, Young Lady. i.e, something that would actually cause tabloids to publish on the topic and/or cause reputational damage to the family.

Those norms haven't existed in Britain for the better part of a century. The total converse would apply.

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So I take it you haven't actually read it then? Well, the Downton Abbey reference is literally just an easter egg. A line I gave Lord Croft. Sure, there's some dynamics that might be reminiscent of the series, but that's more to do with family dynamics than actual setting, imo.
I read it, yeah, but I'm not likely to remember every word.
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Old 16-01-23, 12:12   #18
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They could hold those ideals as individuals, sure. But if you're going to talk about "he would be also concerned about reputation and what the tabloids might write about his daughter and how that reflects on the family" then you're presuming the existence of a wider set of societal norms and taboos where breaking off engagements to go gallivant around the world is Just Not Done, Young Lady. i.e, something that would actually cause tabloids to publish on the topic and/or cause reputational damage to the family.

Those norms haven't existed in Britain for the better part of a century. The total converse would apply.
Oh tabloids would definitely report on the matter and the British press can be very nasty. But my point isn't that the media would definitely 100% report it in a negative light, it's that Lord Croft believed that would be the case. It's a matter of perception and how our own judgment and preconceived ideas can influence our decisions and relationships. Now I'm obviously not a good writer and I admit that this fic doesn't really go deep into any of this, but it also only shows the argument between a father and daughter. I never once go into what the press is actually saying.

Lord Croft is a conservative man and he has expectations for the role his only daughter should have in the family and he values duty and is concerned about reputation and what the Croft name stands for and his world views clash with Lara’s and what he perceives as selfish behavior on her part.

Whether the media would prove him right or wrong doesn't matter. The damage to his relationship with Lara was done.

I admit that I may have my own preconceived ideas about the British press but in the end, it's 1) fiction, so things can be exaggerated, and 2) it's completely besides the point as my focus was on an interpersonal relationship and not on the wider social opinion.

EDIT: Also I just want to add that you keep bringing up the breaking off the engagement, but like I mentioned previously, that isn't the sole motive behind Lord Croft's disapproval. It's mainly Lara's choice of life style — which let's be real, it's not only dangerous but often involves illegal activities. How much of it might become public? So the headlines wouldn't be "Lara Croft breaks of engagement!" but could be something like "Indian authorities accuse Lord Croft's daughter of stealing priceless artifact!" and that would definitely cause damage to the family's reputation.
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Old 22-01-23, 17:36   #19
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EDIT: Also I just want to add that you keep bringing up the breaking off the engagement, but like I mentioned previously, that isn't the sole motive behind Lord Croft's disapproval. It's mainly Lara's choice of life style which let's be real, it's not only dangerous but often involves illegal activities. How much of it might become public? So the headlines wouldn't be "Lara Croft breaks of engagement!" but could be something like "Indian authorities accuse Lord Croft's daughter of stealing priceless artifact!" and that would definitely cause damage to the family's reputation.
I'm glad to see someone else pointing this out, but as I've mentioned/belabored elsewhere this only raises much more fundamental problems with Lara as a character (namely, that given her body count she would either be in prison or a criminal fugitive living under an assumed alias.)

I was kind-of assuming by default that Lara had not thus far engaged in the type of behaviour that would get her arrested, and so far as I can tell the story doesn't actually feature this. (I mean... sure, the Yeti was human once upon a time, but that's just self-defence.)

Look, anyway- I'm not trying to come down too hard on you here. I think it's a decent first entry as a storyteller and maybe you could build on it later?
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Old 22-01-23, 18:39   #20
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I'm glad to see someone else pointing this out, but as I've mentioned/belabored elsewhere this only raises much more fundamental problems with Lara as a character (namely, that given her body count she would either be in prison or a criminal fugitive living under an assumed alias.)

I was kind-of assuming by default that Lara had not thus far engaged in the type of behaviour that would get her arrested, and so far as I can tell the story doesn't actually feature this. (I mean... sure, the Yeti was human once upon a time, but that's just self-defence.)

Look, anyway- I'm not trying to come down too hard on you here. I think it's a decent first entry as a storyteller and maybe you could build on it later?
I just think you're way more invested in the social implications of it all than I am. My focus was really just the interpersonal relationships and trying to give the original bio a little bit more meat.

In any case, I do appreciate you taking the time to read my fic and commenting.
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