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Old 18-04-21, 14:44   #7631
biscuits
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I hate the collectathon gameplay so much. It was fun in TR2013 but the bigger hubs in Rise and Shadow made it boring.
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Old 18-04-21, 15:04   #7632
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I don’t even bother getting them with Rise, especially considering how many there are, that game it’s literally the definition of collectathon lol.
Shadow is a lot more of a collectathon lol. It had twice more resources (most of them useless for the lack of combat), and way more documents most of which revolving around sleep-inducing Paititi politics or boring Kwak Yaku economics. The only remotely interesting ones from what I can remember were those written by Anders Lopez narrating his journey.

Granted Rise was guilty of the same crime at times (pointless documents of hunting lessons for the young in the Geothermal Valley for instance), but I find most of the rest quite interesting. Trinity's spy on the prophet, the invasion of the Syrian oasis, the prophet's journey across the Byzantine empire, Lara's sessions at the psychiatrist, Ana's backstory, Konstantine's motivations etc

However, I still think TR2013 did documents the best.
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Old 18-04-21, 15:37   #7633
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Yeah, I think the documents in TR’13 are the only ones I’ve listen to them all because they were interesting. The history of Himiko and her priestesses, the Endurance Crew, the WW2 soldiers. They added extra backstory to the game, granted some of them should have been actual events in the game, especially Himiko, it would have been better if the game focused more on that part instead of rescuing everyone.

I think overall TR’13 had a great balance of challenges, relics and documents when it came to each hub.
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Old 18-04-21, 16:00   #7634
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Gee, these last few posts made me relive the very legit PTSD I'd suffered from collecting all the ridiculous amount of d̶o̶c̶u̶m̶e̶n̶t̶s̶ (SPAM) present in Rise and Shadow. What an annoying trend in video games. I know you can argue they're in the games to flesh out the world a bit more, make it seem more alive, and add extra detail in the form of different perspectives from characters who couldn't have been added into the story, but Rise and Shadow truly went over the edge. The journals in TR2013 at least gave us more insight into the side characters (whom we were supposed to care about) and all the survivors who lived on the island prior to the Endurance crew, so it was a cool exposition for how the island came into existence. They were also more easily digestible because there weren't so many of them and weren't so lengthy. This annoying collectible needs to go.

EDIT: I honestly think TR13 handled it the best because the island was shrouded in mystery and it actually made you want to read on and uncover the mysteries similarly to how you learn about the daily happenings on the Sevastapol station in Alien: Isolation prior to the infestation. If the plot is intriguing enough, I don't mind reading more background stuff. The problem in Rise and Shadow is that I had absolutely no desire to read all this crap.

Last edited by [Xmas]; 18-04-21 at 16:03.
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Old 18-04-21, 17:18   #7635
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I hate the collectathon gameplay so much. It was fun in TR2013 but the bigger hubs in Rise and Shadow made it boring.
So true, I loved the documents and relics in TR2013 and always wanted a mechanic like this to be used in the TR series. Then Rise came around and collecting stuff started to become a chore. Many of the documents felt like they were filler and certain areas like Soviet Installation and Geothermal Valley became cluttered with collectibles. By the time Shadow came around, it felt like such a drag collecting most of this stuff. I pretty much skimmed through most of the documents since they were so uninteresting. I'm pretty sure they reused the same relic twice as a collectible in Shadow lol.
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Old 18-04-21, 17:29   #7636
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god I hope they never go full open world otherwise.. literally a nightmare

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Originally Posted by biscuits View Post
I hate the collectathon gameplay so much. It was fun in TR2013 but the bigger hubs in Rise and Shadow made it boring.
yeah in 2013 it was actually fun

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Shadow is a lot more of a collectathon lol
point is shadow handled it better
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Old 18-04-21, 17:58   #7637
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point is shadow handled it better
SOTTR's tombs were so unbearably mindless and boring I think I quit that one before bothering to collect much.
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Old 18-04-21, 20:02   #7638
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As far as collectibles go...

Like [Xmas] said, TR2013 had the advantage of a mysterious setting - but as interesting as its documents/artifacts were to collect for that sake, they kind of ruined the plot of the game for me.

For example, I figured out that Himiko was a body-snatcher way before Lara did. I think I was about to enter the shantytown, it was that early on.

This is only because I was diligent about collecting everything as I went, which I understand only a minority of players will do - but even so, giving the player the opportunity to solve the mystery before Lara herself does, really undermined the story.

(it also didn't help that the story operated on the presumption that players would share Lara's skepticism in good faith - despite all of the obvious supernatural phenomena going on, and the implicit understanding that they weren't red herrings, which ultimately made Lara look like a dumb**** for thinking otherwise )

A lot of character dynamics seemed to come out of left field, as well, unless you'd read the Endurance crew's logs (Alex's feelings for Lara, Reyes' angst) and/or the Beginning comic.

(it also felt very artificial to me, that every single person on the island just happened to be keeping a personal diary that Lara could find excerpts from, in the vicinity of where they'd appear in a cutscene )

Rise and Shadow weren't as bad (at all) about relegating critical info to optional collectibles, but instead, they chose to bloat those games with miscellanea.

(in my opinion, Shadow was less offensive than Rise in this aspect, but still)

I didn't mind that as much, but I do agree that you could probably halve the amount of collectibles, and leave the rest up to ambient storytelling, to much better effect.

I think it would also help if collectibles weren't so clearly marked as such. Like, why is every single artifact in a box?

It would feel much more natural if some of them were just laying out in the open (or, God forbid, inside a tomb ). If some of the documents were audio logs, rather than written notes.

You know, just some variety to make you feel less like you're picking up the exact same item, only with different flavor text, ten times over.

I liked the murals in Shadow a lot, because they generally didn't give you more than a single line of fluff, while still serving the gameplay purpose of increasing Lara's language skills.

(speaking of which, buried treasure would be more fun if there was more to it than a bunch of resources you're probably already full up on )
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Old 18-04-21, 20:50   #7639
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Rise has the exact same issue with Jacob. It's so obvious from the moment you meet him he is the prophet yet Lara doesn't figure it out till she sees him save Jonah. Im really not fond of this type of 'the audience is in on the secret but the main character is not' storytelling because the story falls flat to me. It also makes some of the later story beats in Rise feel nonsensical.
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Old 18-04-21, 21:30   #7640
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They must've thought we were absolutely brain dead to not guess that it was him. Rise would've been 100 times better had they led us to believe that Jacob was an ally but later found out that he killed the prophet himself years before but needed Lara's help in finding the divine source.
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