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Old 17-07-18, 15:22   #51
Dennis's Mom
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I don't play whataboutism.
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Old 17-07-18, 15:45   #52
KManX89
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Originally Posted by Dennis's Mom View Post
I don't play whataboutism.
Whatever, dude, it clearly proves the Oscars aren't beyond giving maligned actors/movies awards, Suicide Squad being a prime example. How does a critically-panned movie that wasn't even the best movie in the category it was nominated for (makeup) take home an Oscar?

Seriously, the Oscars are pretty much a joke now.

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Old 17-07-18, 17:57   #53
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Originally Posted by HarleyCroft View Post
I was staying out of this whole thing because as a cis-person I wasn't sure if I was entitled to an opinion whether this was offensive or not
Inherently denying someones right to an opinion on something based on their sexual orientation, race or gender is discrimination, regardless of who finds it offensive and how much of a minority you may or may not be.

We should all be allowed to weigh in on this no matter who we are and where we come from in life.

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Old 17-07-18, 18:01   #54
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So you're whole argument is based around you not liking Suicide Squad, a completely unrelated movie? Is that where we're at on defending a viewpoint now?

Anyway, there's a great little article here that sums it up pretty perfectly https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/0...er-trans-role/
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Old 17-07-18, 19:07   #55
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I do think Dennis' Mom raises a good point. If the role is one of a transman, who we would presume wishes to live his life authentically as a man, it doesn't make a lot of sense to undermine that image by casting a female in the role. It only makes sense if Scarlett would have been specifically playing a pre-transition transman who is still physically female.

I could understand if there are transmen who are bothered by this portrayal, because as someone else said a few pages back (I think it was tomblover) to cast a female in the role of a transman is almost re-inforcing the idea that a trans person is "pretending" rather than living their truth by medically/surgically transitioning.

It makes no sense. I'm not necessarily saying it had to be specifically a trans man who played the role. However someone who does look physically and undeniably male would have been a better fit, or even someone kind of androgynous looking if they were going to the "middle way through transition" story-arc.

I don't know if I necessarily buy that the backlash is totally misogynist in itself. I think it's also partly to do with the social climate right now, with outrage culture being so ever present, where everyone can get online and scream to anyone who will listen about how it's "offensive". Jared Leto's film had the benefit of being released back in 2013 when things were a little calmer, although his portrayal of a transwoman has not gone totally without backlash either. However I do kind of see what Dennis' Mom is saying too, about how it does seem to be a bit more conventional and "acceptable" for men to crossdress in the media than it is for women to do it. It's actually kinda weird to think about it because it's so rare, can you actually name more than 5 examples of women straight-up playing men in the media? I can think of Tatiana Maslany playing a minor transman character in Orphan Black, and even then she was justified doing it, given this transman was one of the several clones she played. Whereas with men it's so common it's almost normalised. I'm not saying anyone should feel any kind of way about it, it is just an observation.

@robm - I think gay men are winning a little more on TV rather than in movies. There's several fairly prominent gay actors from TV series I can think of. I'm not necessarily bothered by straight actors playing gay men though, if they do a very good job of it. Nobody can pay me enough to think Lafayette from True Blood was bad, I'm sorry, I don't care that his actor was straight, he got into the role and I still enjoyed his character.
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Old 17-07-18, 21:18   #56
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Originally Posted by rewak View Post
So you're whole argument is based around you not liking Suicide Squad, a completely unrelated movie?
In case you weren't paying attention, I was using Suicide Squad's Oscar win to upend DM's argument regarding backlash. Dennis' Mom claims the backlash surrounding Eddie Redmayne's portrayal of a trans woman in The Danish Girl (despite him looking and acting nothing like the sort in the movie) wasn't enough for the Academy to hold back their Oscar nomination to try to lend credence to his argument that men playing women/trans women generally isn't frowned upon. Yet Suicide Squad, a much-maligned movie by both fans and critics alike not only is nominated, but actually WINS an Oscar for Best Makeup despite Star Trek Oblivion's actually being better and being a well-received film to boot.

If the Academy cared about backlash, Suicide Squad wouldn't have won a makeup Oscar over a film that had 56 different alien creature designs (!) nor would it be holding more Oscars as of this writing than Taxi Driver, Shawshank Redemption, Psycho, It's a Wonderful Life and The Shining. There's been no shortage of outcry over that, either.

And like I said, some roles DO require you to actually be/resemble the thing you're playing. Saying it's okay for a 6'4" black man with 6 packs to play a short Asian school girl because non-doctors play doctors all the time, for example, is a HUGE stretch. Again, why do you think there was so much backlash over Christian Bale's whitewashing of Moses? Or ScarJo's whitewashing of Motoko Kusanagi in GitS for that matter? So yes, I can definitely see where the other side is coming from, the problem lies when the same people crying foul about this call anyone who has a problem with Green Ranger being girlwashed into Tomi for the hypothetical Power Rangers sequel that won't be coming now a sexist/misogynist (there were definitely some feminists saying that). I don't want Tommy the Green Ranger being turned into Tomi the Green Ranger or Ellen Ripley being turned into Allen Ripley. My philosophy is this: they're iconic characters, leave them as is.

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Old 18-07-18, 19:16   #57
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I don't really care who plays what in a movie. People are so offended by everything these days. If those rules really were to be followed nobody could really play anything anymore.
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Old 20-07-18, 16:47   #58
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"my issue with cisgender men playing transwoman what it does that it perpetuates a stereotype that at the end of the day I take this off.."

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Old 21-07-18, 15:01   #59
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While I would have loved the opportunity to bring Dante’s story and transition to life, I understand why many feel he should be portrayed by a transgender person, and I am thankful that this casting debate, albeit controversial, has sparked a larger conversation about diversity and representation in film.
Fair enough I guess, well put.

None of this should have been Scarletts burden to carry. She's an actress and she had every right to feel excited about the potential this role could have had for her career. It's certainly unlike anything i've ever seen her take on.

Hollywood isn't going to change overnight unfortunately, it's a business first and foremost and if they feel it isn't a worthwhile investment anymore they aren't going to hesitate to axe it entirely.

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