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Old 08-07-18, 00:18   #21
lance6439
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She's facing so much backlash & will flop
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Old 08-07-18, 02:46   #22
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@Yeauxleaux: While I see what you mean, and I do agree with you, broadly -- let me be the one to say, #NotAllTrannies.

I mean, that's the point you're making though, right?

People should already know that's what's up. I know we cannot rely on anyone to be smart enough, but still.

This behavior you're describing ought to be normalized though dismissal, whereby everybody stops thinking it's a big deal -- and I get to live my life, and so does the overly zealous "transtrender", until they move on with their life, if it's really only a phase.

As should all LGBTQIA+ identities, really, outside of spaces created by us, for us, where the idea is to discuss these things for self-realization's sake. IMO.
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Old 08-07-18, 12:58   #23
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Point being, when has a female actress ever played a male role, where the male role isn't a transgender person? When has a male actor ever played a female role, that hasn't been a transgender person?
Women outright playing men is rare. Linda Hunt won a Best Supporting Actress Oscar for playing a male dwarf in The Year of Living Dangerously. Debra Winger played a male chain smoking angel in Made in Heaven, but the part is uncredited. There are roles where female characters pretend to be men (Glenn Close in Albert Nobbs).

Men get to play females much more frequently. Louie Anderson is currently playing Christine Baskets on Baskets on TV. John Travolta as Edna Turnblad in Hairspray. Virtually every sketch comedy troupe has men playing women. (My personal favorite is the "Temps!" bit from KITH.) Usually for laughs because I guess women aren't funny?

I have issues with this because it feels like selective outrage and misogyny. Didn't see any outrage over Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl. Other people mentioned high profile non-trans actors in trans roles. I have to wonder had they cast a man in this part--you know, a "respected actor"--if people would be this upset.

I also feel this outrage willfully misunderstands the craft of acting. The entire point is to bring to life another person. The idea that only a "trans" actor can do justice here isn't good argument. No one argues that only blind people can play blind people, or crippled people can play crippled people. No one was upset that Sean Penn didn't have a murdered daughter experience when he was in Mystic River.
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Old 08-07-18, 13:51   #24
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@Yeauxleaux: While I see what you mean, and I do agree with you, broadly -- let me be the one to say, #NotAllTrannies.

I mean, that's the point you're making though, right?
Well yeah, I never said it was "all", or even a majority

I just think the "transtrender" types should not be the face of the trans activism movement and certainly not the wider LGBT community, or be so readily accepted by the wider community as "LGBT". That's a different topic though so I'll leave it there.
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Old 10-07-18, 13:24   #25
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Point being, when has a female actress ever played a male role, where the male role isn't a transgender person? When has a male actor ever played a female role, that hasn't been a transgender person?

(this goes for modern cinema, obviously -- theatre back in the day was different, or even now, I know that)

That's the problem, here. It's not about actors, acting, or even about robbing these roles of transgender actors or actresses, so much -- it's simply that it reinforces the notion that transgender people are only ever putting on a charade as their quote-unquote "preferred" gender, as if trans is something you become, and not something that you are innately. Like you can put on a dress or a men's dress shirt and suddenly become that gender. That's not how it works for us.

I'm as much a woman in my head, wearing heels and with a full face of make-up on, as I am when I haven't shaved for two days and I'm in a high-cut T-shirt that doesn't show my lacy underwear off for everyone's benefit.

We don't think of sexuality, in this way -- and for that matter, I find it tasteless when gay characters aren't played by gay actors or actresses, personally.

Look, if it's so difficult for the big execs to give these roles to actual trans people, they could at least give trans female roles to women, and trans male roles to men. It only makes sense, if you think about it.

(or, it should -- but with the way things are, that these castings are being made still, I don't think many people would agree with me)

Trans (wo)men are (wo)men, so they should be played by (wo)men. The same way a black person should be played by a black person, and not a white person, because that would be ****ing nonsensical.
Not to mention the whole "bbbbbut an actor's job is to play something he/she's not" logic is deeply flawed. A 6-year-old kid can't play the role of a maniacal serial killer. He can try, but he would fail miserably, and that's basically him playing something he is not.

The goal of an actor is to play a role effectively and convincingly, and to do so requires the actor to be the same gender, race, and age of the character. A 6"4 black dude with six packs can't play a teenage Asian school girl no matter how good of an actor he is.
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Old 10-07-18, 13:41   #26
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The goal of an actor is to play a role effectively and convincingly, and to do so requires the actor to be the same gender, race, and age of the character. A 6"4 black dude with six packs can't play a teenage Asian school girl no matter how good of an actor he is.
Wait, what? That obviously isn’t true. Check what Dennis’s Mom said:

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I also feel this outrage willfully misunderstands the craft of acting. The entire point is to bring to life another person. The idea that only a "trans" actor can do justice here isn't good argument. No one argues that only blind people can play blind people, or crippled people can play crippled people. No one was upset that Sean Penn didn't have a murdered daughter experience when he was in Mystic River.
How could you tell if someone wasn’t the exact age, race, sexuality or gender from a performance? Their job is to convince you, not to tick boxes in their own personal lives.
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Old 10-07-18, 14:23   #27
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Not to mention the whole "bbbbbut an actor's job is to play something he/she's not" logic is deeply flawed. A 6-year-old kid can't play the role of a maniacal serial killer. He can try, but he would fail miserably, and that's basically him playing something he is not.

The goal of an actor is to play a role effectively and convincingly, and to do so requires the actor to be the same gender, race, and age of the character. A 6"4 black dude with six packs can't play a teenage Asian school girl no matter how good of an actor he is.
This is silly extreme examples though. You're not thinking critically or using discernment.

Obviously, we know that a 6"4 black dude with six packs can't play a teenage Asian school girl. It's visually wrong right from the beginning, again with the physical appearance of the actor being the important thing here.

However, you probably could get a young-looking 20-something Asian woman to play a teenage Asian school girl, if she can pass as being that young. There is a difference there, it's looking enough like the character you're playing to be able to convincingly get into that role, even if you're not exactly that in reality. In fact that's economical, because casting a young-adult actor to play a teenager means you avoid potential legal and social issues that come with hiring actual minors.

Come back to Johanssen, give her a short haircut and some baggy mens' clothing, she's going to look like what a transman typically looked like before he started transitioning... physically female with some butch tastes.

Trans people are a very small percentage of the population. You can actively search for them with casting calls sure. However actually finding one, among that very small population, who has both amazing acting talent and the exact look you want for the character? I'm not going to say it's impossible, I'm sure there's a few amazing trans actors out there, but that's not just some easy simple task.

It has always been about "the look" of the actor, and their acting ability, over their actual real life experiences. If I became an actor, I wouldn't be in roles that exactly match my real life demography and identity. This is because my features are quite atypical for my ethnic background and I would look out of place playing someone of my own ethnicity (as ironic as that sounds). My features are better suited for WASP-y Northern European type white characters. It is totally irrelevant to a casting director that my name "sounds Italian", I'm actually of Maltese descent and I was raised Catholic, because you don't necessarily see that when you look at me.
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Old 10-07-18, 14:50   #28
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Not to mention the whole "bbbbbut an actor's job is to play something he/she's not" logic is deeply flawed. A 6-year-old kid can't play the role of a maniacal serial killer. He can try, but he would fail miserably, and that's basically him playing something he is not.
Shhh. Don't tell Damien.

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The goal of an actor is to play a role effectively and convincingly, and to do so requires the actor to be the same gender, race, and age of the character. A 6"4 black dude with six packs can't play a teenage Asian school girl no matter how good of an actor he is.
You judge everything by TV/movies as if that's the only existence drama ever had. Millennia of dramatic productions tell otherwise.

For centuries actors have used make up and costume to become a character.

I'm not gonna engage in your silly argument about a 6'4" black man playing an Asian teen. No one is asking for that (although I have to say Jack Black did a very nice job portraying a teen girl in Jumanji.)
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Old 10-07-18, 15:04   #29
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I don't see the problem with this or any of her roles that she has played. She is an actress no? Is it not her job to bring the characters she portrays to life? I'm sure she will do a fine job.

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The goal of an actor is to play a role effectively and convincingly, and to do so requires the actor to be the same gender, race, and age of the character. A 6"4 black dude with six packs can't play a teenage Asian school girl no matter how good of an actor he is.
Well there are certain people out there who would argue that race and gender doesn't matter and that if a person of color wants to play a white character then we shouldn't complain about it and accept it as diversity and other stuff.

You say a 6 year old couldn't play a serial killer? Well that depends on what you mean. We've had movies about evil children like the Omen no?
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Old 10-07-18, 23:52   #30
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I have issues with this because it feels like selective outrage and misogyny. Didn't see any outrage over Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl. Other people mentioned high profile non-trans actors in trans roles. I have to wonder had they cast a man in this part--you know, a "respected actor"--if people would be this upset.

I also feel this outrage willfully misunderstands the craft of acting. The entire point is to bring to life another person. The idea that only a "trans" actor can do justice here isn't good argument. No one argues that only blind people can play blind people, or crippled people can play crippled people. No one was upset that Sean Penn didn't have a murdered daughter experience when he was in Mystic River.
For what it's worth, I didn't like Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl -- not that he did a bad job or anything, not that I didn't like the film, but for the same reason this whole ScarJo situation boils my piss.

Same thing with Jared Leto's role in Dallas Buyers Club. Excellent film, excellent acting on his part, but so clearly meant to ingratiate with cishets, as are the majority of films with LGBTQ+ themes. That's my problem.

Like, cool -- you felt like you were taught a lesson because you just watched a fictional queer person die on-screen and it didn't feel good because the music swelled just so. You value trans lives to an extent, thus. Pats on the back and good for ****ing you, right?

It's a hollow portrayal of something that deserves to be treated with respect.

Because, the queer person inevitably dies, and it's supposed to be really disheartening and the viewer is meant to walk away from the film with a new sense of the value of life, or whatever.

You should already have that within you, to think of me as equal without having a film (that panders to your sensibilities, moreover) move you to.

EDIT: It's obviously less the fault of the actors/actresses than these kinds of controversies make it seem. It's the system that keeps letting this useless, self-satisfying cycle continue...
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