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Old 16-08-21, 11:03   #11
LateRaider
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Originally Posted by KIKO View Post
This is awesome @LateRaider, can’t wait to try it out!

Since it’s your aim to fix the sluggish controls, have you thought about removing the pause in between jumps so that Lara can do continuous side jumps and backflips without the awkward pause? like in the classics I mean
it's a thought! as well as the idea to enable kurtis' sprint.

but right now the goal is to just do those few things i have left listed in "future features i'd like" near the bottom of the OP. i'm not very skilled.

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Originally Posted by perryloo View Post
I think you have used the correct terminology for AOD Lara, ie, a tank, as her original controls are diabolical, and she is like controlling a tank on the PC.
Tank Controls is actually the term for controls used in classic resident evil, silent hill 1, classic tomb raider, parasite eve 2, etc.
d-pad up = forward
d-pad down = backward
d-pad left/right = turn left/right

it's not really a term i was trying to use to be funny, lol. but i'm glad you found it amusing

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AOD controls are just buggy and Lara's controls are like a tank, having to rotate and move, calculation of gaps is hopeless, dying all the time is frustrating. I just do not know why the designers changed these controls on the AOD engine, but it was not for the better.

Its a real pity the controls were that bad, as its the best storyline in the whole Tomb Raider franchise. So I will try the above mod and see if the controls are bit more accurate, especially jumping, and hopefully less tank like.
i think the problem you have with jumping is more an issue of TR:AoD no longer being on the grid system of TR1-5 (which is what leads to the precise control-and-go movement and platforming of the classics), as well as the upgrade system of AoD which has the player constantly reevaluate how far a jump or hop will take lara. i don't think tank plus is going to help, nor would sasho648's recovery patch EXE or even playing the PS2 version with its camera-relative analog controls.
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Old 16-08-21, 11:28   #12
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Tbh, the removal of the grid system wasn't really the worst part of the controls. It wasn't as precise, but it sort of made sense with the idea of Lara building back up her strength that she'd be able to do more over time.

The real annoyance I feel is how several things about it were just completely broken. The small hop is really supposed to be used for shorter distances, since it stays consistent throughout the game, but in vanilla it's barely mentioned and was completely broken with the swerve at that. So areas like Wrath of the Beast and all were just needlessly difficult. The walk to run thing and slower run speed made it nearly impossible with smaller ledges to get Lara the running start she'd need to actually make a jump. And just smaller things like that.

They're not perfect, no. But having those things fixed or gone goes a long way toward making L&K more responsive I feel.
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Old 16-08-21, 15:07   #13
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It is so crazy to me that the developers themselves struggled to control the game during demonstrations and somehow thought it was ok to stay with this control scheme. The fact that fans can come up with something better is nuts Core could have ripped off the control system of any other platform game that came out in that era and it would have already been an improvement over their own ideas!
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Old 16-08-21, 16:16   #14
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It is so crazy to me that the developers themselves struggled to control the game during demonstrations and somehow thought it was ok to stay with this control scheme. The fact that fans can come up with something better is nuts Core could have ripped off the control system of any other platform game that came out in that era and it would have already been an improvement over their own ideas!
I've always had a feeling that the whole mess with the controls came about after the mandate from Sony to switch over to the analog control scheme. There's just no other explanation for how from the game's beta that they seemed to be fine then compared to what we got at retail.
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Old 16-08-21, 16:28   #15
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I've always had a feeling that the whole mess with the controls came about after the mandate from Sony to switch over to the analog control scheme. There's just no other explanation for how from the game's beta that they seemed to be fine then compared to what we got at retail.
But they should have been analog and non tank like from the very start. Even back in 1996 this was the direction controls were going in. I wish someone had asked them in one of the interviews for the 25th anniversary why they struggled with controls so much.
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Old 16-08-21, 16:34   #16
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But they should have been analog and non tank like from the very start. Even back in 1996 this was the direction controls were going in. I wish someone had asked them in one of the interviews for the 25th anniversary why they struggled with controls so much.
Yeah, arguably that was one of Core's biggest faults. They struggled with modernizing from the classics. But I'm positive that most of AOD's technical faults are from basically everyone at Core during that time being completely mismanaged. You look at it from the outside and think how could anyone possibly royally mess up something like controls this bad. But knowing the state they were in at the time, it's really no wonder things went all over the place.
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Old 16-08-21, 17:13   #17
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Originally Posted by LaraCablara View Post
It is so crazy to me that the developers themselves struggled to control the game during demonstrations and somehow thought it was ok to stay with this control scheme. The fact that fans can come up with something better is nuts Core could have ripped off the control system of any other platform game that came out in that era and it would have already been an improvement over their own ideas!
Honestly what is most bizarre to me is how the PS2 and PC versions use such radically different control schemes. I think the PS2 version has the superior controls by a mile. Meanwhile until someone is able to work out how to get the camera relative controls working 100% fine on PC for keyboard and mouse as well as XInput, we're stuck detangling this weird PC control difference.
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Old 16-08-21, 17:35   #18
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Honestly what is most bizarre to me is how the PS2 and PC versions use such radically different control schemes. I think the PS2 version has the superior controls by a mile. Meanwhile until someone is able to work out how to get the camera relative controls working 100% fine on PC for keyboard and mouse as well as XInput, we're stuck detangling this weird PC control difference.
That's one's actually pretty easy, the reasoning I mean. The PS2 was the lead development platform, so Core spent most of their time on that. The PC version was developed last and is why it has so many more issues even besides the controls. It was literally developed as an afterthought.

I remember Nakamichi saying once that the flipped texture issues came about because the PS2 has some sort of texture occlusion technology that certain textures utilized that the PC version doesn't have. So when the PC version was made, those textures showed up as transparent because there was nothing on the other side and it went unnoticed to due lack of development time.
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Old 16-08-21, 18:55   #19
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but kurtis can't hop back
Oooh okay that makes sense, yeah. That's a real shame tbh. If only we had tools so we could add Lara's hop back animation to him. Oh well. Yeah in that case it makes sense to use something else. By the way, have you considered swapping back left/right movement when L/K is walking backwards? In TR1-5 + TRLE clicking eg. left while walking back would make Lara turn to the left, which in result makes her hop back to the right. This is inverted in TRAOD for some reason. Since most TRAOD fans are also TR1-5 fans (I suppose), it would make more sense to keep controls similar.

Also, alternatively if it's possible, maybe Lara could use her hop back animation while Kurtis could use gallop back instead..? Unless you can't make it that way, in that case I'm personally perfectly okay with galloping for both of them.

EDIT: Do you plan to do something about the combat mode?

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Old 16-08-21, 19:10   #20
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Also, alternatively if it's possible, maybe Lara could use her hop back animation while Kurtis could use gallop back instead..?
that's a thought, but i think i'd rather keep the controls cohesive.

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EDIT: Do you plan to do something about the combat mode?
I'm not going to do anything with combat mode, and I would like to reverse the back up but it depends. Like I said right now tank plus is on hold unless someone can help me with the remaining issues before Sasho says breaktime is over
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