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Old 28-08-20, 19:27   #21
Sgt BOMBULOUS
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I just replayed TRA a week or so ago and was struck by how well it holds up. One of the criticisms I'll never understand is the b**ching & moaning about the Tomb of Tihocan... That level was just boring leftovers from the Cistern. I liked the Cistern in TR1, but I never cared for ToT at all.

And considering the things they added, like the dramatically expanded SFF, and the Egpyt levels, it's just crazy to me. The only thing I hated about it was some of the badly executed traps in Obelisk of Khamoon, like those hallways with the post/smashing blocks where she keeps jumping OVER the post again and again... I guess they messed up the position detection or something.
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Old 28-08-20, 21:42   #22
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And considering the things they added, like the dramatically expanded SFF, (...)
St. Francis' Folly wasn't dramatically expanded. It just received a decent treatment: a kind of flight from the nineties to the initial years of 2000s. I don't say that the game flew to 2007, because it was already outdated on its release day: it belonged to the previous generation, not the generation that was current at the time of its release. I think that every level should have been done like St. Francis' Folly as regards the complexity and the size of the level with respect to the original Tomb Raider. On the other hand, some god rooms were actually extended, but don't forget that there is also a part that was cut from the level: the part with the slide, crocodile, two secrets and water between the first room and the large vertical room with god side rooms.

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One of the criticisms I'll never understand is the b**ching & moaning about the Tomb of Tihocan... That level was just boring leftovers from the Cistern.
If it was boring leftovers, then they might have corrected it and made it interesting in Tomb Raider: Anniversary. In my opinion, that would be appropriate for the tenth anniversary.
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Old 29-08-20, 01:54   #23
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but don't forget that there is also a part that was cut from the level: the part with the slide, crocodile, two secrets and water between the first room and the large vertical room with god side rooms.
Some small parts like that I really don't care that they cut. It was hardly a highlight of the original level, I don't miss it at all. All four god challenge rooms being improved and the main vertical chamber feeling twice the size of the original made the level a massive improvement and did help it feel expanded.

I don't miss the first part of Tomb of Tihocan either. In the original it felt like a mere extension of the cistern, which was already a long enough level, so they might as well have condensed the two levels into one. I think maybe Anniversary's ToT level could have used a few of the side rooms from the original Cistern level maybe, but really the puzzle that was there was good enough even without.

I find the above cuts much more forgivable than cutting out over half of Atlantis and simplifying The Lost Valley (speaking chiefly of the valley portion itself, I do like that Anniversary made it feel more hidden away) and The Coliseum as much as they did. The latter two levels were on the relatively shorter and simpler side in the original as they were anyway, so streamlining them down further really hurt them.

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Old 29-08-20, 04:24   #24
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Some small parts like that I really don't care that they cut. It was hardly a highlight of the original level, I don't miss it at all.
If you looked at the game in the way that only highlights should be retained, then a big portion of the game could be cut, because highlights are only its best and outstanding parts All highlights of Lost Valley were present in Anniversary, but, as you wrote, you don't quite like the simplification of the valley. Another example: the Atlas room wasn't a highlight of the original level, but I suppose many would miss its Anniversary rendition.

To be honest, so much content of Tomb Raider 1 was cut in Anniversary that it looks like the game was made with the idea of preserving only the highlights in mind.

I miss the part of St. Francis Folly' we are discussing. Reaching the two secrets was fun, especially the one which required a jump from the slide. Definitely this part of the level wasn't boring so, in my opinion, there wasn't a good reason to cut it.
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Old 29-08-20, 23:15   #25
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Having just finished a replay of TR1 I have to agree that the first half of ToT was worth being cut - it was too samey to the cistern and by that point I was getting a bit bored of it. I would have liked a bit more to the main chamber of the cistern than what ended up being there though - especially as it's essentially the last ditch attempt at stopping anyone getting into ToT.
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Old 30-08-20, 01:44   #26
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Originally Posted by Yeauxleaux View Post
Some small parts like that I really don't care that they cut. It was hardly a highlight of the original level, I don't miss it at all. All four god challenge rooms being improved and the main vertical chamber feeling twice the size of the original made the level a massive improvement and did help it feel expanded.

I don't miss the first part of Tomb of Tihocan either. In the original it felt like a mere extension of the cistern, which was already a long enough level, so they might as well have condensed the two levels into one. I think maybe Anniversary's ToT level could have used a few of the side rooms from the original Cistern level maybe, but really the puzzle that was there was good enough even without.

I find the above cuts much more forgivable than cutting out over half of Atlantis and simplifying The Lost Valley (speaking chiefly of the valley portion itself, I do like that Anniversary made it feel more hidden away) and The Coliseum as much as they did. The latter two levels were on the relatively shorter and simpler side in the original as they were anyway, so streamlining them down further really hurt them.
Egypt in TRA was a masterpiece IMO. They cut very little, and made some cool additions as well (Like the obelisk puzzles for each Ankh) I even kind of like the change made with OoK, although I wish they'd refined it a lot more. In TR1 OoK, the main threat was a crapload of mummies and enemies, I'm totally cool with replacing a lot of that danger with traps, but I just wish they'd made the jump detection and timing a bit more reasonable.

Atlantis is a good discussion point... A few side rooms of some sort would've been nice. But don't forget, in the original you spend almost no time in the pyramid shaft aside from making some easy jumps, there's no real danger while you're there. I guess they wanted to make a real challenge for the final stretch of the game. As far as the Great pyramid goes, I never really enjoyed that level much in TR1, but it would have been nice if the final level of TRA had been a little longer. It's important to remember that it was intended as an homage to the original and not a 1:1 recreation.

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St. Francis' Folly wasn't dramatically expanded. It just received a decent treatment: a kind of flight from the nineties to the initial years of 2000s. I don't say that the game flew to 2007, because it was already outdated on its release day: it belonged to the previous generation, not the generation that was current at the time of its release. I think that every level should have been done like St. Francis' Folly as regards the complexity and the size of the level with respect to the original Tomb Raider. On the other hand, some god rooms were actually extended, but don't forget that there is also a part that was cut from the level: the part with the slide, crocodile, two secrets and water between the first room and the large vertical room with god side rooms.
Man... I do not miss that room AT ALL, lol... I had to look at a guide to figure out how to get that damn secret reliably. the fact that she can grab hold at the bottom of a slide never occurred to me since it physically makes zero sense to begin with. I guess if I'd played originally with the PC version it'd be different because I could've saved immediately before the slide and just kept trying, but playing it on the PS1 made it an absolute nightmare with the placement of the save crystal - if you mess this up you literally have to replay the ENTIRE level.

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Old 30-08-20, 17:11   #27
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Honestly, Anniversary needs one more than ever because of all the hate it gets.
There's a perfectly good reason for that.
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Old 30-08-20, 18:51   #28
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There's a perfectly good reason for that.
Not perfect, but a valid reason. It’s not a game for everyone.
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Having just finished a replay of TR1 I have to agree that the first half of ToT was worth being cut - it was too samey to the cistern and by that point I was getting a bit bored of it. I would have liked a bit more to the main chamber of the cistern than what ended up being there though - especially as it's essentially the last ditch attempt at stopping anyone getting into ToT.
I exactly agree with this. Tomb of Tihocan was a chore and unnecessary in TR1, it probably just existed for the sake of the level/section formula.
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Egypt in TRA was a masterpiece IMO. They cut very little, and made some cool additions as well (Like the obelisk puzzles for each Ankh) I even kind of like the change made with OoK, although I wish they'd refined it a lot more. In TR1 OoK, the main threat was a crapload of mummies and enemies, I'm totally cool with replacing a lot of that danger with traps, but I just wish they'd made the jump detection and timing a bit more reasonable.
Absolutely. The puzzles, platforming and traps are better and better.
Quote:
Atlantis is a good discussion point... A few side rooms of some sort would've been nice. But don't forget, in the original you spend almost no time in the pyramid shaft aside from making some easy jumps, there's no real danger while you're there. I guess they wanted to make a real challenge for the final stretch of the game. As far as the Great pyramid goes, I never really enjoyed that level much in TR1, but it would have been nice if the final level of TRA had been a little longer.
I never thought about that.
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It's important to remember that it was intended as an homage to the original and not a 1:1 recreation.

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Man... I do not miss that room AT ALL, lol... I had to look at a guide to figure out how to get that damn secret reliably. the fact that she can grab hold at the bottom of a slide never occurred to me since it physically makes zero sense to begin with. I guess if I'd played originally with the PC version it'd be different because I could've saved immediately before the slide and just kept trying, but playing it on the PS1 made it an absolute nightmare with the placement of the save crystal - if you mess this up you literally have to replay the ENTIRE level.
I honestly don’t miss small rooms like that.
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Old 02-09-20, 09:44   #29
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The way Temple of Khamoon is 100x better than the original, which was already good
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Old 03-09-20, 14:51   #30
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The way Temple of Khamoon is 100x better than the original, which was already good
I dunno about that, they're really quite similar. The rooms definitely seem more grand in TRA, and the puzzle near the end was a cool way to finish it off.
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