Easy And Reliable Way Of Skipping The Gunman Near The Bridge In Barkhang Monastery

Greenapple968 · 03-04-24, 14:03

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF8yv3gxLjs

When you use the Trapdoor Key it takes you to a high part of the level where there's a bridge that you're meant to have to travel across. A gunman appears and has the ability to make a threat of himself. There have been known ways of skipping the gunman, but they tend to be difficult to pull off, or at least for me. In this video I show you a virtual full-proof way of skipping the gunman. It requires a specific setup which is easy to produce and should result in you reliably skipping the gunman if you follow my actions and instructions listed in this video.

As well as showing you myself skipping the gunman, I also show you myself skipping the nearby monk. So it's possible to skip both the gunman and the monk if you apply the techniques that I applied in this video. There's a lot of sense and logic in skipping the gunman. However, there's seemingly little point in skipping the monk unless you're attempting some sort of challenge where things would be easier without the monk.

deadmando9 · 03-04-24, 14:52

Very nice trick. Probably a glitch or something. Thank you Greenapple for providing this video and guide.

fallenangle · 03-04-24, 23:07

'Just' looks as if there is a trigger square(s), like the one that spawns the vulture, and if you can avoid crossing it/them the gunman does not appear.

Nice find.

Greenapple968 · 04-04-24, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadmando9

Very nice trick. Probably a glitch or something. Thank you Greenapple for providing this video and guide.

It is a glitch. This skip has been known for many years but I wanted to show an easy and reliable way of pulling it off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallenangle

'Just' looks as if there is a trigger square(s), like the one that spawns the vulture, and if you can avoid crossing it/them the gunman does not appear.

Nice find.

It's one of the more basic glitches. This skip wasn't found by me; the setup belongs to me but the skip itself doesn't.

Danjo86 · 11-04-24, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenapple968

It is a glitch. This skip has been known for many years but I wanted to show an easy and reliable way of pulling it off.

It's one of the more basic glitches. This skip wasn't found by me; the setup belongs to me but the skip itself doesn't.

I think it depends on what you define as a "glitch".

Tomb Raider 2 typically uses one or more trigger squares to trigger the appearance of each enemy, and avoiding those squares prevents those enemies from spawning.

A good example is when going after the first secret in Wreck of the Maria Doria - if you jump diagonally from the end of the shaft/tunnel before dropping down into the changing cubicle to collect the secret, the second goon doesn't spawn.

Avoiding trigger squares legally (i.e. by using legally intended movements) would be allowed in a glitchless speedrun. If, however, you avoided a trigger square by using a bug such as the corner bug, then you would be using a glitch to avoid it.

xtimz · 12-04-24, 06:06

^ I really dislike the way the speedrun community tells whether it's a glitch. The criterion is whether it's the author's intended way, which will finally down to mind reading. I hate mind reading in all circumstances.

fallenangle · 12-04-24, 12:51

I knew you were going to say that.

Danjo86 · 13-04-24, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtimz

^ I really dislike the way the speedrun community tells whether it's a glitch. The criterion is whether it's the author's intended way, which will finally down to mind reading. I hate mind reading in all circumstances.

It's an interesting topic, and one that is clearly somewhat subjective.

Some draw the line between what is and is not a glitch at the point you trick the engine into placing Lara somewhere she should not be able to reach (e.g. the corner bug tricks the engine into assuming Lara has jumped from the top of the structure of which she has become partially embedded into one of its corners at the base, hence this is an indisputable glitch).

However, if you widen the definition to what the developer did or did not intend, then as you say you have to start speculating.

Having seen a number of interviews with Core developers, there were certainly a number of non-intended outcomes which testers identified and to which the developers were willing to knowingly leave in on the assumption that no one would actually find that outcome (although generally if the testers identified an unintended outcome, the developers had to resolve it).

Given that testers identified, for example, the ability to get behind the scenery from the roof of the building you explode at the end of Bartoli's Hideout by using a convoluted sequence of moves (which was rectified prior to release), I wouldn't be surprised if they discovered that at least some trigger squares could be bypassed. However, triggering one or two fewer enemies in a level than the full number may have been considered trivial compared with a player exiting the immersion of the level's scenery.

I appreciate I've gone into a slightly wider tangent here, but for a geek like me it's intriguing. Love this find in Barkhang Monastery as well

xtimz · 19-04-24, 11:13

^ I thought about it carefully, i.e. to give a (relatively) objective definition of glitch. One way I think is as follows. Tomb Raider is a game that simulates the real world. If something can happen (or is reasonable) in the real world, I tend to think it's not a glitch. The most important phenomena of the real world is the space-time continuity. For example, if you're at place x=1, you cannot be at place x=100 in the next moment. You must pass through x=1.1, x=1.2, ...., x=99.9, x=100, in a continuous way. So corner bug is definitely a bug, because it breaks the space continuity.

Another type of continuity is the health loss. For example, the dive bug. The health loss suddenly drops from 1000 (instant death) to 0 (no scratch). There is no nearby settings that can achieve a relatively continuous health loss such as 5, 20, 45, ..., 862, 1000. So dive bug is a bug. I thought about that because there was a furious discussion in the speedrun community about whether the kayak drop at the end of Madubu Gorge of TR3 is a glitch. I tend to think it is a glitch, not because it's not the author's intent, but because it breaks the continuity: The health loss drops from 496 to 0 with no intermediate values.

So curved jump is not a glitch. It's might be impossible in real world, but it's quite reasonable in real world if Lara is a football.

The rule has exceptions. The most important is perhaps the jump-by bug (or jump-by technique). It's reasonable in reality. But if we allow it as a legal way, we have to try every corner when playing, which makes the game-play stupid. So there is always some tradeoffs, in order to make the game more interesting.

Those are just my very simple thoughts.

03-04-24, 14:03	#1
Greenapple968 Member Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 12,127	Easy And Reliable Way Of Skipping The Gunman Near The Bridge In Barkhang Monastery Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF8yv3gxLjs When you use the Trapdoor Key it takes you to a high part of the level where there's a bridge that you're meant to have to travel across. A gunman appears and has the ability to make a threat of himself. There have been known ways of skipping the gunman, but they tend to be difficult to pull off, or at least for me. In this video I show you a virtual full-proof way of skipping the gunman. It requires a specific setup which is easy to produce and should result in you reliably skipping the gunman if you follow my actions and instructions listed in this video. As well as showing you myself skipping the gunman, I also show you myself skipping the nearby monk. So it's possible to skip both the gunman and the monk if you apply the techniques that I applied in this video. There's a lot of sense and logic in skipping the gunman. However, there's seemingly little point in skipping the monk unless you're attempting some sort of challenge where things would be easier without the monk.

03-04-24, 14:52	#2
deadmando9 Member Joined: Oct 2023 Posts: 1,309	Very nice trick. Probably a glitch or something. Thank you Greenapple for providing this video and guide.

03-04-24, 23:07	#3
fallenangle Member Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,183	'Just' looks as if there is a trigger square(s), like the one that spawns the vulture, and if you can avoid crossing it/them the gunman does not appear. Nice find.

12-04-24, 06:06	#6
xtimz Member Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,412	^ I really dislike the way the speedrun community tells whether it's a glitch. The criterion is whether it's the author's intended way, which will finally down to mind reading. I hate mind reading in all circumstances.

12-04-24, 12:51	#7
fallenangle Member Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,183	I knew you were going to say that.

19-04-24, 11:13	#9
xtimz Member Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,412	^ I thought about it carefully, i.e. to give a (relatively) objective definition of glitch. One way I think is as follows. Tomb Raider is a game that simulates the real world. If something can happen (or is reasonable) in the real world, I tend to think it's not a glitch. The most important phenomena of the real world is the space-time continuity. For example, if you're at place x=1, you cannot be at place x=100 in the next moment. You must pass through x=1.1, x=1.2, ...., x=99.9, x=100, in a continuous way. So corner bug is definitely a bug, because it breaks the space continuity. Another type of continuity is the health loss. For example, the dive bug. The health loss suddenly drops from 1000 (instant death) to 0 (no scratch). There is no nearby settings that can achieve a relatively continuous health loss such as 5, 20, 45, ..., 862, 1000. So dive bug is a bug. I thought about that because there was a furious discussion in the speedrun community about whether the kayak drop at the end of Madubu Gorge of TR3 is a glitch. I tend to think it is a glitch, not because it's not the author's intent, but because it breaks the continuity: The health loss drops from 496 to 0 with no intermediate values. So curved jump is not a glitch. It's might be impossible in real world, but it's quite reasonable in real world if Lara is a football. The rule has exceptions. The most important is perhaps the jump-by bug (or jump-by technique). It's reasonable in reality. But if we allow it as a legal way, we have to try every corner when playing, which makes the game-play stupid. So there is always some tradeoffs, in order to make the game more interesting. Those are just my very simple thoughts.