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Old 16-06-19, 13:49   #121
killchan
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Shadow wasn't more Classic.
This lie needs to stop.
It was a prettier, less coherent and balanced Rise with less stuff to do, more and bigger areas with no gameplay aspect and longer loading hidden behind more and longer linear traversal.
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Old 16-06-19, 13:54   #122
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Originally Posted by JsotoTRSaga View Post
Oh for God's sake quit being so extremely over dramatic and actually focus on the discussion at hand, it's 2019...
No. You won't get to joke about mental incapacities at me. The least you could do is be respectful about it, especially after I called you out on that and explained why.


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I haven't even mentioned the puzzles.
But I did. Because that's the foundation of the LC games, which you were implying they were closer to the classic formula than reboot, when in fact those games, LAU and reboot are pretty similar, ESPECIALLY in the puzzle department.

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I'm sorry but people complaining about Shadows puzzles being "too hard" are dumb. This is the problem. Why would you want these kind of players to be the target audience for Tomb Raider?
People complaining about Shadow's puzzles being too hard are entitled to have their opinion just as you do, without being deemed as dumb or mentally incapacitated.

And once again, the gp is the audience they need to target most and foremost, because they are the ones who bring the most money to keep it alive .

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Crash remake did very well and I'm sure Crash Team Racing will do just as well, but does that cater for the casual gamer? No, they made those games just as hard as the originals.
Crash and Tomb Raider are two pretty different games.

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I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid, but you implying Shadow sold less because of the classic elements which means an original design wouldn't work today just sounds like nonsense to me.
Again, I've already told you multiple times that it was one of the elements that factored it. Again, I've already told you that I don't think that was the sole factor. And again, I've already said, just like you did, that fatigue, and keeping the same formula for three games also had a factor, as well as the issues at launch. Still, the game has already generated profit, and with 4.1M units shipped between Sept. and December. TR12 has likely started pre-dev sometime ago.

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Originally Posted by Tombraider95 View Post
Don't forget, you said this about my opinion...
I said that about you trying to imply the LC games are closer to the classic TR formula, which they are not. They are LAU and Reboot-like physics based puzzles, and platforming, therefore resembling LAU and Reboot.

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Originally Posted by killchan View Post
Shadow wasn't more Classic.
This lie needs to stop.
It was a prettier, less coherent and balanced Rise with less stuff to do, more and bigger areas with no gameplay aspect and longer loading hidden behind more and longer linear traversal.
Shadow wasn't more classic. Shadow had more classic elements, modernized to the reboot era. More puzzles, swimming, etc.
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Last edited by Vaskito; 16-06-19 at 13:55.
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Old 16-06-19, 14:02   #123
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Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post

But I did. Because that's the foundation of the LC games, which you were implying they were closer to the classic formula than reboot, when in fact those games, LAU and reboot are pretty similar, ESPECIALLY in the puzzle department.
Yeah? I said remove the isometric and the co-op and you have a game closer to the original design than the reboot does. So what if there's physics puzzles in LAU & Reboot? There's also some in the classic games.


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Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post
People complaining about Shadow's puzzles being too hard are entitled to have their opinion just as you do, without being deemed as dumb or mentally incapacitated.

And once again, the gp is the audience they need to target most and foremost, because they are the ones who bring the most money to keep it alive .
They can have their opinion, but if they find the game with different difficulty settings "too hard" maybe they shouldn't be playing it.

This is why I said IF Tomb Raider was given a smaller budget/team it could focus on the fans more than the general public. But like you said, if TR is so big, the general public would still buy it anyway. It's a win win.


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Crash and Tomb Raider are two pretty different games.
Both are huge franchises that had difficult gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post
I said that about you trying to imply the LC games are closer to the classic TR formula, which they are not. They are LAU and Reboot-like physics based puzzles, and platforming, therefore resembling LAU and Reboot
You're not getting me. But that's fine, this is my view and that's yours.
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Old 16-06-19, 14:08   #124
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Shadow didn't release the same day as Spiderman did, it released a week after and I don't see why that stopped selling less on the Xbox One platform. In my view the game was just unappealing to the GP and no one cared about it after E3, they also didn't released any trailers since E3 till the game's launch. It was a mess.
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Old 16-06-19, 14:12   #125
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Shadow didn't release the same day as Spiderman did, it released a week after and I don't see why that stopped selling less on the Xbox One platform. In my view the game was just unappealing to the GP and no one cared about it after E3, they also didn't released any trailers since E3 till the game's launch. It was a mess.
Yeah. I don't think people should blame the more classic elements like puzzles or tombs. If anything, those aspects received the most praise. Like you said, the game was very unappealing and stale because it barely innovated on its prequels. It may as well have been Rise's jungle DLC. When you look at its competition like Spiderman, God Of War or RDR2, it's easy to see why people passed on it. It was an unremarkable game that couldn't compete or stand out. It should have released 3 years ago where it would have done better.
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Old 16-06-19, 14:17   #126
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Yeah. I don't think people should blame the more classic elements like puzzles or tombs. If anything, those aspects received the most praise. Like you said, the game was very unappealing and stale because it barely innovated on its prequels. It may as well have been Rise's jungle DLC. When you look at its competition like Spiderman, God Of War or RDR2, it's easy to see why people passed on it. It was an unremarkable game that couldn't compete or stand out. It should have released 3 years ago where it would have done better.
Yeah I agree. The more classic elements like the swimming, traps and tombs are easily the best things about Shadow. It's just a shame it took 3 games to get there.
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Old 16-06-19, 14:54   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JsotoTRSaga View Post
Oh for God's sake quit being so extremely over dramatic and actually focus on the discussion at hand, it's 2019...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post
No. You won't get to joke about mental incapacities at me. The least you could do is be respectful about it, especially after I called you out on that and explained why.
He said nothing about mental incapabilities, he just asked you to stop being so extremely over dramatic, something you called me yesterday. That has nothing to do with mental disorders. So make it make sense, or stop being such a victim that suddenly say "mental incapabilities" out of the blue.
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Old 16-06-19, 15:03   #128
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Please stop getting personal. All of you.
Discuss the topic but not the members or their actions.
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Old 16-06-19, 15:13   #129
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Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post



I said that about you trying to imply the LC games are closer to the classic TR formula, which they are not. They are LAU and Reboot-like physics based puzzles, and platforming, therefore resembling LAU and Reboot.



Shadow wasn't more classic. Shadow had more classic elements, modernized to the reboot era. More puzzles, swimming, etc.
Nah they were actually.

They had vehicles, acrobatic combat and (if only a single repeated boss fight in Legend admittingly) supernatural enemies.

Are they super similar, so much you'd think they were made by the same developers?

No

But they have some similarities, which is more than a few (And I'm pretty sure just outright almost nothing in the case of 2013.), yes there are similarities betwen LAU and Reboot, that doesn't remove the fact there are similarities between LAU and Classic that the reboot doesn't have.

In the same way that lots of 90's shooters like Blood and Duke Nukem currently have more in common than the newer games.


Oh and we didn't have to wait 3 games for acceptable swimming.
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Old 16-06-19, 15:27   #130
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how do you imagine dual rifles? or dual shotfuns or dual bows?

eh? sounds weird doesnt it
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