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Old 15-04-19, 19:23   #11
Isaac
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I find the whole Jon being the rightful heir irritating because I prefer Dany but I know it's a 50:50 thing with audiences so I don't expect everyone to agree. I just hope they don't try and make her into a baddie in all this. I know she's done dubious things but I do feel that she's painted as "dark" for things that other characters are just allowed to get away with.
I don't think she'll become a "baddie" but she does obsess too much over title and the crown. Ever since Jon met her she has been very insistant about it. Like Sam asked: would she be ready to renounce the crown for her people? We know Jon did, but what about her?

She's ruthless, determined and doesn't hesitate to toss any potential opponents on the side. The good news though is that she's caring with people on her side and those she respect. Jon brought a lot of humanity in her too.

In best case scenario she'll have a moment of self-awareness and distance herself from her goal, just enough to open up to the idea that maybe it's not meant for her, or if it does the ends don't always justify the means...

Either way I'm pretty sure her feelings is what will save her.

As for my predictions, I can't help but be constantly reminded of both Bran and Daenerys' vision of the iron throne room being in ruins and filled with snow. I think they will lose whatever battle that will happen in Winterfell and King's Landing... And flee further south, or on the other continent perhaps. Not all wars are meant to be won. It could be one of these case.

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Old 15-04-19, 19:45   #12
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I don't think she'll become a "baddie" but she does obsess too much over title and the crown. Ever since Jon met her she has been very insistant about it. Like Sam asked: would she be ready to renounce the crown for her people? We know Jon did, but what about her?

She's ruthless, determined and doesn't hesitate to toss any potential opponents on the side. The good news though is that she's caring with people on her side and those she respect. Jon brought a lot of humanity in her.

In best case scenario she'll have a moment of self-awareness and distance herself from her goal, just enough to open up to the idea that maybe it's not meant for her, or if it does the ends don't always justify the means...

Either way I'm pretty sure her feelings is what will save her.
I suppose this is why she's so divisive to people as I see her as inherently a good person who wants to rescue people - hence why she stayed in Essos so long to free slaves and attempt to prevent the old order from returning.

I agree she is a conqueror who is very focused on conquering the seven kingdoms and is ruthless at times, but no more than some of the others who don't get pulled up for it like she does. And I think her backstory explains why that is - how she and Viserys have lived in exile since her birth believing that they have a right to take back what is there's. As virtually anyone in that position and universe would.

In effect she has already given up the crown temporarily for her people and is risking it permanently by going after the WW before resolving the war for the 7 kingdoms first. She is doing it after seeing the WW herself because she saw what they were. And despite what Jon said to the northern lords, he didn't actually have to bend the knee for Danaerys to do this. After she rescued them from beyond the wall and saw the WW, she told him that she would help him defeat them. And then he said he'll bend the knee (paraphrasing) but strictly speaking he didn't need to because at that stage, after seeing the threat, she was prepared to do the right thing.

I personally don't think Jon has brought out any more humanity than what she has shown previously. Jon didn't tell her to stop the Dothraki raping women, or to tell her to tell Yara the iron born had to stop raping and pillaging, or to free slaves, or even not to burn Kings Landing (which is something she'd already agreed with her advisors).

Anyway I like her so I'll be really upset if she turns bad, which having seen this episode I am getting bad vibes about. We'll see.

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As for my predictions, I can't help but be constantly reminded of both Bran and Daenerys' vision of the iron throne room being in ruins and filled with snow. I think they will lose whatever battle that will happen in Winterfell and King's Landing... And flee further south, or on the other continent perhaps. Not all wars are meant to be won. It could be one of these case.
Or flee to the Iron Islands maybe after what Yara said in this episode.

That would be an amazing ending if they did have to leave Westeros completely as they were unable to win the battle and it was just left like that.
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Last edited by Blackmoor; 15-04-19 at 20:00.
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Old 15-04-19, 20:34   #13
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"He's got blue eyes!"
"I always had blue eyes!"

Lmao!
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Old 15-04-19, 22:31   #14
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Can someone tell me why Sansa is acting all badass and entitled now when we all know the only reason she is alive is because everyone has been protecting her? She is absolutely useless. She could get a pass if she was at least humble but those looks to Danny? No, bitch. She would destroy you in a heartbeat. Show some respect because she's saving your ass.
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Old 16-04-19, 02:17   #15
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Can someone tell me why Sansa is acting all badass and entitled now
While I do think the whole "she's the most clever person" thing to be questionable, I think I understand Sansa's motive. She's a Stark and Jon's brother but he spend much more time listening to other people's advice than his own family and making sure the Starks remain written in history.

As Arya said, Sansa vows for the Stark and want her family to remain at the top. After everything they've gone through, all the deaths, she feels it's deserved. But there come a random pretty queen with two dragons now suddenly Queen of the North.

She doesn't want to be tossed on the side. She feel that, as Starks, her family is owed the crown.

Let's not forget that she hasn't seen the threat yet. People talk about the White Walkers all the time but only Jon, his close friends, the Wildlings and Daenerys actually saw them. No one else. Reality will strike her eventually.

While it does come across as a bit petty (as Bran said "there's no time for that"), she hasn't known better. She's not a warrior. Being political is all she knows and can do.

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Old 16-04-19, 02:23   #16
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Sansa thinks she's all that because she basically saved the BotB for Jon and learned a trick or two from Littlefinger. I sympathised with her for a little while, but I've not been too keen on her since then. I think her reaction to Dany is simply one of distrust for a stranger. Once they've swapped horror stories of what they've each been through, she may come around a bit. Though it may turn out she'll betray Jon and Dany, maybe? But she's probably had the least interesting character change over the others. She hasn't really done anything of note. Though I suppose not all the characters can be heroes.

Good points though, Isaac
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Old 16-04-19, 12:44   #17
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While I do think the whole "she's the most clever person" thing to be questionable, I think I understand Sansa's motive. She's a Stark and Jon's brother but he spend much more time listening to other people's advice than his own family and making sure the Starks remain written in history.

As Arya said, Sansa vows for the Stark and want her family to remain at the top. After everything they've gone through, all the deaths, she feels it's deserved. But there come a random pretty queen with two dragons now suddenly Queen of the North.

She doesn't want to be tossed on the side. She feel that, as Starks, her family is owed the crown.

Let's not forget that she hasn't seen the threat yet. People talk about the White Walkers all the time but only Jon, his close friends, the Wildlings and Daenerys actually saw them. No one else. Reality will strike her eventually.

While it does come across as a bit petty (as Bran said "there's no time for that"), she hasn't known better. She's not a warrior. Being political is all she knows and can do.
I understand what you mean, and tbh I expected the character to grow a little better after everything she's gone through. To me she has almost no redeeming qualities and the worst thing is that she's not even interesting. Not even Bran is interesting to me, with all his powers and ****. The only Stark I like and I feel went through hell and back and evolved beautifully, is Arya. As for who is the best to rule the North, I would say John is the better option. He reminds me of Ned so much and I truly feel he would be a great King. Rob was a good option too.

But Sansa, oh Sansa. I sympathized with her for so long but the way they're picturing her as this super amazing badass ruler is something I can't understand. Apart from saving John, what else has she done that guarantees her acting like she does? Because we all know she's only alive because different people have protected her throughout the series or because she was simply lucky.

I don't even understand where all this "wisdom" is coming from her either. You could argue that she learnt a thing or two from Cersei but that's not even accurate. Cersei knows how to trick people, how to smile to them when in fact she's planing to murder them. Sansa seems like the complete opposite, always showing her cads because she knows nothing about the world. And her dismissive behavior towards EVERYONE is something that gets on my nerves. I can't stand it. Specially to people like John or Danny, who are really trying to help everyone.

Also, the fact that she mentions Danny's looks to John made my eyes roll. She is incredibly shallow. Again, I don't like what they're doing with the character. I hoped they would evolve her way better than they did.
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Old 16-04-19, 12:57   #18
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I actually quite like Sansa. I was quite disappointed how a bad character she was for all those seasons, however she managed to put herself together in season 6 and did something for a change. However it's true, she wasn't smart enough towards Dany etc.

I'm not quite sure about Bran. He seems like a retard now, dunno how to explain.

Based on how the episode ended, I'm wondering what's going to happen ahahah
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Old 16-04-19, 13:36   #19
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The problem with the Sansa character at the moment is they need someone to embody / represent the Northern supposed resentment towards the Targaryens and foreigners (Dothraki and unsullied). And Jon can't play that role as he's already won over by Danaerys, Bran can't because he's the 3-eyed raven and no longer concerned with such things, Ayra has previously expressed admiration for a female Targaryen (in her talks to Tywin) to be able to credibly be so hostile immediately.

Plus it kind of bookends the Sansa of first episode in season 1. Someone wholly impressed with Queen Cersei on her arrival at Winterfell............ Sansa's whole arc is to rid herself of silly infatuations and beliefs in fairytale princes and princesses. She has to not be impressed by this impressive new Queen.

And I think she despairs at Jon giving up his title so easily because she thinks he's being a bit like her old romantic self. She's projecting onto him.
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Old 16-04-19, 13:49   #20
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^ I like your point of view.
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