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Old 27-04-19, 14:16   #21
JsotoTRSaga
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Um , no this is quite a stretch . The parents role was at its most insufferable in LAU hands down . Yes , part of Lara's motivation in Rise was to clear Richard's name and relive herself of the guilt feelings , but at least Reboot Lara as a character prior to TR2013 grew up completely away from Richard's shadow , rebelled over his points of view and formed her own , ditched the aristocratic lifestyle and lived an ordinary life , sought adventure to make her own mark etc . Therefore Richard's inclusion in Rise & Shadow -as annoying as it was- was nowhere as abhorrent as in LAU where you have a grownass adult mature Lara still obsessed with her father (with whom she had a very strong bond) and hints that if it hadn't been for Amelia's disappearance and the burden associated with that Richard left her she might not have pursued tomb raiding in the first place .
My mistake, maybe I shouldn't have added LAU there (though he is much prominent in rise than in the movie that is for sure) I must agree that LAU's parents inclusion was the worse.
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Old 27-04-19, 14:34   #22
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My mistake, maybe I shouldn't have added LAU there (though he is much prominent in rise than in the movie that is for sure) I must agree that LAU's parents inclusion was the worse.
Yeah . Plus , it was clearly implied in the reboot games that Lara is more competent and good at her job than Richard anyway (aside from the fact that she was a great combatant while Richard sucked at firearms and fighting) , Yes she followed his research to the Prophet's tomb but it was she who made the connection to Kitezh (where her father failed) and from Syria onwards she was following her research not his . Compare that to Underworld for example where it was pretty much Richard who left clues for Lara telling her blatantly where to find the gauntlets , belt and hammer . It was as bad as in Legend where Lara didn't bother to do any research as it was Zip and Alister who did all the business and guided her to where she needs to travel . I've always liked the focus to make Lara more of a nerd and a brilliant academic researcher in the reboot contrary to her lazy dependent LAU self .
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Old 27-04-19, 14:46   #23
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See at least unlike Dominguez/Amaru, I actually rather liked Konstantine. His backstory makes zero sense, and the developers tried wayyy too hard to make him intimidating but his relationship with Ana was endearing and you could tell that he cared for her, despite the cheesy dialogue. I also really liked his interactions with Lara, such as the Syria scene where Lara blows up the tomb, or how in every cutscene both characters are downright vicious to each other (gulag prison, kitezh).

I don't dislike Amaru because he's badly written or whatever, I dislike him because I feel absolutely NOTHING towards the man. He's so forgettable and unremarkable and I hate him!!!
The reboot trilogy lacked good villains like Amanda or the overused Natla or even Von Croy. If anything, the reboot comics did a MUCH better job in this regard. Nadija was cool AF and Dr. Cruz was deliciously evil and sadistic. Those two should have been in the games.
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Old 27-04-19, 14:57   #24
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I don't dislike Amaru because he's badly written or whatever, I dislike him because I feel absolutely NOTHING towards the man. He's so forgettable and unremarkable and I hate him!!!
.
I feel the exact same .

Konstantine -despite his fishy bizarre backstory- had much better charisma and screen presence than Amaru , and in a series that don't have class-A villains he was really decent in my opinion .
Amaru in comparison was just insanely lame and forgettable . He'd be lame even for an ordinary Trinity cell leader , let alone being the head of such organization .
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Old 27-04-19, 15:18   #25
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I feel the exact same .

Konstantine -despite his fishy bizarre backstory- had much better charisma and screen presence than Amaru , and in a series that don't have class-A villains he was really decent in my opinion .
Amaru in comparison was just insanely lame and forgettable . He'd be lame even for an ordinary Trinity cell leader , let alone being the head of such organization .
Indeed. I can't even see Amaru as a leader of a cell, let alone the entire Trinity organization!
I was always vocal in my criticism of Trinity, but prior to Shadow I was willing to give the devs a chance. After all, we still didn't know anything about their motivations and origins. Maybe there's still something about Trinity we know nothing about.
But no. They had nothing for us. It was even MORE disappointing for someone who read the reboot comics. Because those books spent years building them up and telling us that there was someone at the top who commanded everything from Sam's experimentation and Richard's assassination. Amaru was so lame and had so little screen presence to the point where I'm convinced that they pulled him out of thin air. Shadow finally confirmed to me that Trinity was nothing but an excuse for the player to shoot human enemies. Just look at how the higher council was taken out at the end of the game. It was clearly the developers saying "Yeah we know Trinity is dumb and lame. Let's just use this opportunity to get rid of them so you guys can never hear from them again".

Say what you will about Mathias but at least the Solarii made sense. The game clearly established where they came from and how they came to be. They established why they're so crazy and why they turned to worshipping the sun queen. They didn't really feel like an excuse for the player to shoot human enemies, but rather an organic part of the story IMO.
Sorry for the novel
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Old 27-04-19, 15:41   #26
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I agree with everything you said I was genuinely interested in Trinity by the end of Rise and excited about the Vatican hints and whatnot , I know it's very unlikely that CD thought of/planned a proper ending to Trinity when they first started their arc but judging by Rise's cliffhanger and the hints throughout the game I have to say anything we would've gotten was going to be better than the Paititi galore .

And yep , the Solari are the most well-written "organization" we've had in any TR game , they're just so underrated . Maybe because their leader was sort of a clown
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Old 27-04-19, 16:19   #27
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Ignore if this doesn’t add to the discussion:

See, I wouldn’t use “charisma” to describe Konstantin. He’s cold, speaks very generically for a religious mercenary with a big plan, and tends to come across almost hammy (“you were meant to be my eyes, you were supposed to see!” *pops out eyes symbolically*). Aside from the daft backstory, there’s not enough to really dive into his character. He’s extremely religious due to an event in his past that’s criminally stupid, we don’t know how either he or Ana came to be in Trinity, or anything about their relationship other than “he’d burn the world down to save her” - he’s extreme and villainy but you don’t get much context for anything.

Comparatively, Dominguez is more understated and genuinely charismatic. He isn’t going around poking people’s eyes over a generator being tampered with, but showing compassion and aiding people he deems innocent. On a surface level, he’s a good man, but underneath he’s become warped by the grief over his brother’s death (which he blames himself for) and the fear of the outside world destroying his home, like it did Sayri. I could believe, and find it more interesting, that the leader of Trinity (who isn’t a mercenary) would be oddly charming, complimentary and intimate, ultimately masking how damaged they really are.

There’s also his views on the world that I find interesting; Konstantin kills people in the name of God who he hopes will forgive him, and it’s all fair game with him, but Dominguez slaughters the rebellion as an act of “reclaiming” them as one of his own, that through their deaths they will be redeemed for working against him, which is so twisted.

I also think Dominguez is better matched with Lara than Konstantin. The latter is a tyrannical threat for Lara to shoot fireballs at, but the former is more human, sincere and respectful. Like how he offers Lara his condolences in the church scene, she finds it in herself to return an important memento of his brother to him in the DLC. They felt quite alike, so it was engaging for me to see them talk on equal ground. He also doesn’t resort to Richard taunts when they disagree, but addresses her personally (“how many lives have you ended, and in pursuit of what?!”).

I don’t think Trinity was handled well at all in Shadow, but I’d argue they were never a strongpoint of the reboot to begin with. It’s like, I wasn’t expecting anything better, to be honest.

As for Konstantin, don’t get me wrong, I like him. In my mind, he should’ve lived, been redeemed and (unpopular opinion) possibly worked with Lara later down the line. Like a lot of Rise though, his potential shines brighter than the execution.

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Grimaldi is one of the nicest and most respectful members on this forum , maybe you're mistaking him for someone else ?
Also, thanks, man.
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Old 27-04-19, 18:51   #28
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Ignore if this doesn’t add to the discussion:

See, I wouldn’t use “charisma” to describe Konstantin. He’s cold, speaks very generically for a religious mercenary with a big plan, and tends to come across almost hammy (“you were meant to be my eyes, you were supposed to see!” *pops out eyes symbolically*). Aside from the daft backstory, there’s not enough to really dive into his character. He’s extremely religious due to an event in his past that’s criminally stupid, we don’t know how either he or Ana came to be in Trinity, or anything about their relationship other than “he’d burn the world down to save her” - he’s extreme and villainy but you don’t get much context for anything.

Comparatively, Dominguez is more understated and genuinely charismatic. He isn’t going around poking people’s eyes over a generator being tampered with, but showing compassion and aiding people he deems innocent. On a surface level, he’s a good man, but underneath he’s become warped by the grief over his brother’s death (which he blames himself for) and the fear of the outside world destroying his home, like it did Sayri. I could believe, and find it more interesting, that the leader of Trinity (who isn’t a mercenary) would be oddly charming, complimentary and intimate, ultimately masking how damaged they really are.

There’s also his views on the world that I find interesting; Konstantin kills people in the name of God who he hopes will forgive him, and it’s all fair game with him, but Dominguez slaughters the rebellion as an act of “reclaiming” them as one of his own, that through their deaths they will be redeemed for working against him, which is so twisted.

I also think Dominguez is better matched with Lara than Konstantin. The latter is a tyrannical threat for Lara to shoot fireballs at, but the former is more human, sincere and respectful. Like how he offers Lara his condolences in the church scene, she finds it in herself to return an important memento of his brother to him in the DLC. They felt quite alike, so it was engaging for me to see them talk on equal ground. He also doesn’t resort to Richard taunts when they disagree, but addresses her personally (“how many lives have you ended, and in pursuit of what?!”).

I don’t think Trinity was handled well at all in Shadow, but I’d argue they were never a strongpoint of the reboot to begin with. It’s like, I wasn’t expecting anything better, to be honest.

As for Konstantin, don’t get me wrong, I like him. In my mind, he should’ve lived, been redeemed and (unpopular opinion) possibly worked with Lara later down the line. Like a lot of Rise though, his potential shines brighter than the execution.
I like your viewpoint on things, but:

(I might have a dusted memory on this)
Konstantin got into Trinity, because of Ana. Ana had him abused (probably for years) until the dude became very religios, and very loyal to Ana; to that extent, where he would turn against Trinity aka the whole Divine Sauce (pun intended) fiasco.
If I remember correctly, the people Lara fought under the name of Trinity; were mercenaries. Not like in Shadow, where they were -supposedly- highly trained soldiers.
So I do understand the act of gauging eyes and such. (Intimidating enough, to not to turn on him, at least.)

As for the taunting:
this is one of my biggest problem with the story.

Ana was trusted with the execution of Richard, possibly by Amaru. Ana said, she couldn't do it. Konstantin says : 'Trinity killed your father!'. Because of this, and his loyalty to Ana, it's safe to assume he was there , when the execution happened.
Yet, it is Rourke who actually pulled the trigger.
So it is a theory only, but on the day of Richard's death, Ana wasn't around the manor, Konstantin was in hiding (or maybe not, if Richard knew him) around the office and finally Rourke had a sniper nest somewhere on the grounds. After shooting Croft, konstantine made sure to look like a suicide, then left.

I can actually see, why he was taunting her. So I didn't found it cringey, but a last resort to shake Lara.

Edit:
I'm still thinking about the whole Trinity ordeal, because Amaru claims, Richard was his friend. What if Richard knew exactly who Amaru is?
Also Lara says her father stopped researching Paititi, he started a new project, the divine source. So it doesn't make sense for Amaru to order his death...
He was close to find the Prophet's tomb when he died. That means he did stopped researching Paititi, because of Amaru. That means Amaru was imortant enough to Richard to stop finding somthing that important.

Last edited by Zsott; 27-04-19 at 19:01.
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Old 29-04-19, 20:46   #29
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Probably the only one who thought it was epic, guess I'm easily pleased
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Old 29-04-19, 22:11   #30
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Probably the only one who thought it was epic, guess I'm easily pleased
Finishing Konstantine with an arrow to the throat afterwards was definitely epic
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