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Old 28-07-19, 18:32   #21
Catapharact
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Originally Posted by charmedangelin View Post

As long as they have a confidence intervals of .05 or around .05 then the sample size is perfectly acceptable. Of course it depends on which journal the studies is being published in, some have a confidence interval of .08 and some are a bit sticter with a confidence interval of .03. This means that they are 95% confident that observed measures can be attributed to the variable.
... And that is why you need a bigger sample size; Especially if you are observing behaviour patterns and then attributing it to the population at large. Behaviour patterns and variables also depend upon possible compromises and bias. Lara Croft is a very famous VG Character and individuals who may have not played the TR games but are quite prominent in the VG community at large might have pre-defined notions of what Lara Croft's Character entails.

You need a defined control element before you can conduct a study like this. Were the samples taken from a predominantly Conservative Household or a Liberal Household? Had the individuals in the sample size had exposure to Lara Croft's character outside of the video games? (i.e. Advertisements? Movies? etc.)

There are so many other variables that play into how a person's behaviour might be influenced one way or another. Simply picking a sample size without defined controls makes no sense.

Portugalraider:

Thank you for sharing the link to the study. When I get a chance, I will read it over and see what it has to say.
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Old 28-07-19, 18:33   #22
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Top sexualised crap for me is the cheeky Core renders tbh
90% of the renders have a hidden dirty gesture :/
Lara Croft was especially in the CORE ERA a beautiful woman so they marketed her sex appeal so what? As most people know sex sells in the entertainment industry why should gaming be any different?
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Old 28-07-19, 18:40   #23
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Originally Posted by Catapharact View Post
... And that is why you need a bigger sample size; Especially if you are observing behaviour patterns and then attributing it to the population at large. Behaviour patterns and variables also depend upon possible compromises and bias. Lara Croft is a very famous VG Character and individuals who may have not played the TR games but are quite prominent in the VG community at large might have pre-defined notions of what Lara Croft's Character entails.

You need a defined control element before you can conduct a study like this. Were the samples taken from a predominantly Conservative Household or a Liberal Household? Had the individuals in the sample size had exposure to Lara Croft's character outside of the video games? (i.e. Advertisements? Movies? etc.)

There are so many other variables that play into how a person's behaviour might be influenced one way or another. Simply picking a sample size without defined controls makes no sense.

Portugalraider:

Thank you for sharing the link to the study. When I get a chance, I will read it over and see what it has to say.
That's why I again said you cannot scoff at sample sizes and jump to conclusions. You have to actually look at the study and actually read up on the data analysis they did on how they came to such conclusions. What your proposing would be great ways to expand upon this study, but you can't control for everything and you can't add too many levels to what your looking for because then you run the risk skewing your results too much to where nothing can be said about anything.

I do think they should do follow ups on this and retest the study to make sure that the results can be replicated. But remember that the claim and myth is based on all women and that's exactly what they were going for.

But in terms of sample size it really depends on the numbers observed and the confidence interval. Of course a larger sample or even a smaller sample is going to shift that interval a bit, but a sample is meant to be reflective of the population not the population itself. Then you would have a census and there are many problems with conducting those.

Edit

To make sure I get the point across I'm not 100% disagreeing with you. Exactly where you draw the sample from and who makes up that sample is important. For example my class created a thesis for a project and our sample was the students on campus. Of course the problem we ran into with our study is that what maybe true of college students may not be transferable to the general population who don't attent college. But again I would like to reiterate that the number alone is not indicative of whether or not a study is valid. It really depends on the things that I said above.
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Old 28-07-19, 19:05   #24
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Lara Croft was especially in the CORE ERA a beautiful woman so they marketed her sex appeal so what? As most people know sex sells in the entertainment industry why should gaming be any different?
Here's a better question: why isn't the entertainment industry as a whole making better? Which it is now. Because sex sells, but so do other things. And empowerment is clearly showing that it can sell better now.

--

Anyways, I've read the study and there are some things it says:
  • This study mentions that other studies report sexualized characters might have negative effects in self-sexualization;
  • Interestingly, a study showed that women playing with sexualized characters are less inclined to think that "women who dress sexy are asking for it";
  • They note that younger demographics (children and teens) might be more susceptible to this;
  • The study was performed in adult (over 18 years old) women from a liberal arts university;
  • They are aware that sample number might be an issue;
  • They had several strategies in place to make the test subjects as unbiased as possible;
  • They tested not only for self-objectivation, but also for objectification and violence and harm towards other women;
  • Each test group played one of the games for 30 minutes;
  • 2/3 of the participants were gamers ;
  • There was some effect on the objectification for other women, but not statistically significant;
  • Non-objectified characters were actually more inclined to harming other women, but again, not statistically significant;
  • They suggest that it might also be necessary to study the effects of prolonged exposure to the games, although one study suggests it might not be significant;

Again, they are aware of their possible errors, which is good. Still, the population seems a bit too restrictive, not only on number, but from their background. This might be more as "women in liberal arts aren't susceptible to sexualized characters", for example. Or as I said before "adult women (or more specifically, young-adults) aren't affected". I think that studying the effect on kids and/or women with different states of mental health, would be interesting as well.

More interestingly, they mention a study where women might be more effected by real women than by fictional characters. I might be interpreting this a bit wrong though, I didn't understand if "fictional characters" includes live-action characters or not. If it doesn't include live-action, it would be interesting to compare those game results with women watching either the Angelina Jolie TR movies or Alicia Vikander's movie, for example.
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Old 28-07-19, 19:37   #25
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We seriously need a clipboard feature on this website. This is why I don't type long response because I ****ing hate it when I accidentally click on something a loss everything I typed.

Long story short I read the study and I agree that this study is flawed and cannot be transfered to the general population since it engaged in sample bias given they were all college women.

I put a lot more emphasis on mental health of women and how it effects their self objectification when playing these games.

Early life experiences as a child is going to have much more greater impact on the outcome of any mental health disorder then simply playing a video game for a few hours.

Most of the disorders they refer to are triggered by some forum of trauma. Because not all women who play video games develop symptoms that mimic any forum of a disorder.

But I will agree that the study is flawed, but they also point out that most other studies on this subject matter are also flawed given most studies of this nature is done on college women and not any other groups where there may or may not be any effect of a kind.
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Old 28-07-19, 20:18   #26
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I think it is important to notice that they are aware of the limitations of their study, and that they refer to studies that showed different conclusions to theirs. It is a sign of good, competent researchers working with what they got.

Still, to prove if over sexualized characters have or not any sort of significant impact on women and/or how women are perceived, we still have a long road ahead
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Old 28-07-19, 20:30   #27
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Its a nice study for sure, but not one that captures the bigger picture.

I think a better approach is to really go at the games that more activly use sexualization, like DOA for example(or at least past DOA)

The thing is that you can not really 100% have the guarantee that it really is gaming related since society itself did and still uses sexualization of women that impacts womens body image.

Anything you could come up with for Tomb Raider, is only a tiny drop.
Even if you bring up how Eidos sold Lara appearance away for any kind of marketing like some meat...its the fact that many companies etc who used her likeness in their marketing, didnt care or see the negative sexualization they promoted.
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Old 28-07-19, 21:04   #28
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The problem with that approach is that it makes it more obvious that you are studying oversexualization, and can make the test subjects more biased towards the study. The article does a great job describing this, and why in TRU they went with the Swimsuit (it is definitely sexualized, but not too in your face), and not one of the bikinis (more sexualized, but more obvious about what they were studying).

I actually think this study has very good protocol (note that psychology is nowhere near my are of expertise, though). It just needs both a more prolonged exposure period, and to be applied to a bigger and more diverse population.
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Old 28-07-19, 21:35   #29
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From what I know people tend to be more effected by the people around them and the criticisms they get from people they are exposed to. For example constantly reminding someone of what they are eating or constantly talking about someone weight or physical appearance. It even extends to "jokes" that people try to make like, "damn gurl, you really eat alot." Or "Wow, you really like food don't you" or "are you sure that ain't too much, I'd never eat like that". Statements like these that people can be exposed to while young can be internalized and lead to more insecurity and long term negative consequences to someone's body image and mental health growing up.

I always make note to call some of my family out when they try to make these so called "jokes" whenever my cousins come over. These innocent little jokes can do way more harm then people beleive.

While I do agree that media does set the standard of what is beautiful or at least reflects what society percieves to be beautiful, I tend to place a lot more meaning on personal experiences although I would have to look at studies to really look more into this matter.
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Old 28-07-19, 23:18   #30
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OMG, a female whose opinions fly in the face of what Anita Sarkeesian and other feminists would like us to believe. How refreshing.

I don't think women who have a healthy sexual identity are the ones who hate pretty women in video games, it's the ones who are emotionally disturbed and repressed who do.

Some of them are the ones cawing the loudest for the removal of all "objectifiable" content. It's sort of a form of bolshevism, all female figures must be made plain and non-sexual, so that the "least equal" in terms of female charm don't feel "stigmatized".

Which is a sick idea in and of itself.

As a male gamer, I'd say the TRU wetsuit is the most "objectifiable" outfit in any of the classic TR games, even so, it didn't distract me while playing the game. It's not like I was eaten by a shark while trying to angle the camera for a better shot of Lara's crotch.

I don't see the TRL bikinis as really sexual. Lara has a pool, therefore she needs something to wear while swimming. And she's definitely a bikini sort of woman.
Anita Sarkeesian embarrasses me when people think her opinions reflect most other women, all my girl friends who play video games are with me on this, they like playing as sexy female characters.

TR1 had a 40% women demographic, and we know out of the 60% men a big chunk were gay, so the original game honestly had an incredibly inclusive balance that appealed to everyone.

Obviously I can't speak for whatever the demo is now, but I would be incredibly surprised if the last three reboot games had as high of a female audience as TR1 did, honestly I don't think it would be even close. But that is only my personal speculation and I could be wrong, so take that as a grain of salt.

I guess the point I'm making here is that devs think by lessening curves on female characters or covering them up they are making games more female friendly, but it's honestly appealing more to a select demographic of (some definitely not all) straight men who are offended by women who are comfortable in their own skin (the same people calling streamers "twitch thots" because they show cleavage, etc).

The original Lara Croft was inclusive beyond her time in my eyes. Taking her curves away isn't doing women any favors. I'm all for various body types for new characters, but outright taking those curves away from a character who had them is off-putting to me.

So many curvy and thick girls love classic Lara because they relate to parts of her and that's empowering, and skinny girls like me have fun playing as bombshell Lara too because it's like a fantasy playing as a character with curves that I don't have. It doesn't make me feel bad at all that I don't have DDDD's and those curvy hips and thighs, I think it's fun as hell to play as a woman who does though in a power fantasy kind of way.

But even straight men find her empowering, the amount of them who only look at Lara as an object are few and far between and probably didn't even play the games. Both my brothers are straight and they respect the hell out of classic Lara, they've only ever seen her as a symbol of empowerment, never just some object.

Also regarding sample size from the article, well duh it would be nice to see a bigger sample size of and more studies, hopefully we will get that. It's still a fascinating read no less, doesn't have to be taken as wholly truth, but it's interesting.
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