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Old 14-06-19, 16:09   #1
Maverin
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Lightbulb How was it back then?

I got curious. It's a pretty popular topic nowadays to criticize and compare the newer titles with those before it. But this forum has been around since the beginning of the 21st century.

Now my question is: did people criticize titles like TRII for losing it's original roots and being too action packed? Did people criticize TRIII for being way too diverse? Did people criticize TRIV for suddenly removing certain weapons and changing her overall look? Etc.
So are there people back then who felt like the Core titles were already losing it's charm and straying away from it's roots? Did they feel like Core made some wrong decisions?

I just wonder if all this comparing and criticizing has been around forever, or if really only started after the switch between companies.

Please try to limit the core versus CD/EM discussion here. This thread should mainly focuse on people's different opinions between the Core games


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Old 14-06-19, 16:22   #2
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I don't think the forum existed until after Chronicles was released (or near enough) and the internet as a whole was in its infancy during the original Core run in the 90s (no advanced social media obviously). So people didn't get to air all their detailed opinions on every game the way they do now.

The only thing people had back then was professional reviews really, which by and large seemed to think the formula was losing steam by TR3 or 4 and by Chronicles it was in serious need of a revamp. Then AoD happened.
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Old 14-06-19, 16:30   #3
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^ I remember seeing so much about AOD and being so excited to see Lara again. Finding out she died at the end of TR4 but then was found at the end of TR5 was really exciting!! I saw so much about the new Lara and how interesting the game was gonna be. I recall one magazine calling her Metal Gear Raider or something like that since she could hug walls and sneak around, perform stealth kills just like Solid Snake from MGS2. I still am pleased with the game that I got. It could be better, sure, but I think everyone was too rough on it.

Nowadays games are launched poorly finished (like a few Ass Creed games) and no one bats an eye. The fan base is upset that everything is a mess but it doesn’t kill the series like everyone thought happened with AOD.

It was really ahead of its time for the PS2 generation.
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Old 14-06-19, 16:31   #4
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Try looking at usenet groups.

24/11/1997
Quote:
must say, I have found Tomb Raider 2 to be a bit disappointing so far.
I am in the Opera House level now. Why disappointing? I'll tell you:
* Opening movie: cool, but what's the point?? If you don't read the
manual, you have no idea why Lara is at the Great Wall or what the goal
is. The first game's movie set the stage for the Grand Adventure.
There's NOTHING like that this time around. YUK.

* Lara's voice is different. It sounds like they have a different actor
playing the role. Sheesh, you'd think after creating such a following
they would have found someone with a more similar voice. The new Lara's
voice is like an octave lower!
* Only 3 secrets per level?? And this time you KNOW what you are looking
for?? That certainly takes the fun out of it. In the first game, part of
the fun was exploring every nook and cranny, finding secret passages and
rooms that were secret themselves. You never knew when you might climb up
somewhere and here the special music announcing a secret. Now it's "oh
there's one of those statues... big whoop." Once you've found all 3 you
know there's nothing left to look forward to on that level. Bleah.
* On the Playstation version, TONS of graphics glitches. The first one
looked much better in terms of solid graphics. Now there are seams
between the polygon walls, dead enemies fall half-in/half-out of walls,
Lara disappears into walls. Ugh.
* Enough of the Venice level already!! The Great Wall started out good,
exploring caves and dank, dark, passageways. One level and ZIP your off
to Venice, to spend what seems like forever walking around city streets.
What is this, Resident Evil 2?? Bring back the mystique of forgotten
worlds...
* Being able to save at any point takes WAY too much fun out of it. I
liked the concept of the blue jewels and how you had to make it there
first to be able to save. Now it's "this looks like a difficult jump...
I better save before I attempt it." There's much less tension knowing
that you can simply reload if you screw up. The blue jewels were a
reward after a particularly nasty bit of exploring and surviving.
I'm just amazed that Eidos and Core didn't put more care into the sequel.
Sure, there are new things that make the game interesting, but it really
seems to have lost all of the elements that made it so much fun in the
first place. I've seen numerous posts from people saying that TR2 is
harder than the first game. That astounds me. With the ability to save
at any point the game has become dead easy. Perhaps Eidos listened a
little too intently to all of the user suggestions they received. In
trying to please everyone, I think they've given gamers a let-down.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....4/oiItXzRneyoJ

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Old 14-06-19, 16:38   #5
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^ What kind of monsters think Venice was awful?
I wonder what these guys would think of TR now.
Not the grand evolution we all have seen, but from TR1 straight to Rise. I wonder what they’d think
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Old 14-06-19, 16:40   #6
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Now that’s a journey.
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Old 14-06-19, 16:52   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quebsenuef View Post
^ What kind of monsters think Venice was awful?
I wonder what these guys would think of TR now.
Not the grand evolution we all have seen, but from TR1 straight to Rise. I wonder what they’d think
Better yet what kind of monsters actually defend that stupid save crystal system from TR1?

Do you not value your time? I do. There's nothing fun about being put back 10-20 minutes every time I fail at something.
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Old 14-06-19, 16:52   #8
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One thing that I've always found interesting about TRF compared to a lot of other gaming comment areas/discussion forums/outlets is that people in the latter spaces seemingly love TR1/2. However, after that, 3/4/5 are questionable. Some saw them as a cash grab or just not innovative enough. That's been the narrative for quite some time. While potentially true from a financial perspective, I believe 3 and 4 did a lot to expand on what 1 and 2 accomplished, which is why you see many people here say 3 and 4 are god-tier TR games.

Interestingly enough, this can be semi-paralleled with 2013 and Shadow. I don't want to get too off-topic with Classics vs Reboot but one could argue the same for those games. 2013 was a massive success and performed well, but a lot of fans here don't view it on the same level as Shadow since the latter brought so many TR-esque elements back to the table, while casual fans were fatigued, a complaint that plagued 3/4/5.

That discussion Reggie linked to is absolutely fascinating btw.
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Old 14-06-19, 16:56   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie View Post
Try looking at usenet groups.

24/11/1997


https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....4/oiItXzRneyoJ
That compilation is gold!

this one kills me absolutely:
Quote:
* Being able to save at any point takes WAY too much fun out of it. I
liked the concept of the blue jewels and how you had to make it there
first to be able to save. Now it's "this looks like a difficult jump...
I better save before I attempt it." There's much less tension knowing
that you can simply reload if you screw up. The blue jewels were a
reward after a particularly nasty bit of exploring and surviving.
I'm just amazed that Eidos and Core didn't put more care into the sequel.
Sure, there are new things that make the game interesting, but it really
seems to have lost all of the elements that made it so much fun in the
first place. I've seen numerous posts from people saying that TR2 is
harder than the first game. That astounds me. With the ability to save
at any point the game has become dead easy. Perhaps Eidos listened a
little too intently to all of the user suggestions they received. In
trying to please everyone, I think they've given gamers a let-down.
WHY would anyone DARE to allow players save and reload at any given moment during the level... BLASPHEMY

you can make limited savegame system yourself - just stick to saving only in certain locations and it's the exact same thing!

Last edited by Dustie; 14-06-19 at 16:57.
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Old 14-06-19, 16:58   #10
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Maybe that douchebag was actually the person responsible for the (albeit modified) save crystal system being re-introduced in TR3? Core saw that comment and decided to bring it back?

Thanks, whoever you are.
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