What did you like or dislike about TR Underworld - Page 4

DOPE · 08-08-21, 10:59

I liked how colorful Thailand was, some parts of Mexico I consider good, the Manor level and Lara’s movement system when the controls don’t glitch.. everything else a mess.

Frceghst8 · 08-08-21, 14:45

@ Dope : Aww, you didn't like the Norse mythology in game? I wish they would have expanded on it. Just imo.

Mr. Mr. · 16-08-21, 16:59

I wanted to like this game. I really, really did. But it just has too many game-breaking bugs to enjoy. There were two separate instances where I was unable to complete a level because of a major bug that forced me to start the level all over again- one in Thailand (lever didn't appear) and the other in Mexico (an item I picked up earlier in the level was strangely not in my inventory at the end).

Also, I think it was a mistake for the first level of the game (not counting the flash forward in Lara's Home) involved swimming, especially since it's a fetch quest to enter the main underground area.

Frceghst8 · 17-08-21, 12:51

Xbox version or PC version? ^

Mr. Mr. · 19-08-21, 16:38

The lever bug was in the Wii version, the inventory bug was in the XBox 360 version. I fared better in the PS3 version included in the HD Trilogy, though.

Blackmoor · 19-08-21, 17:37

Like:

-"Drop it, Zip, or I'll drop you"
-"I need Thor's belt to get his hammer, and I need the hammer to kill a god".
-Mexico and Thailand graphics
-Some of Lara's movements - very gymnastic-y
-Some of the Amanda / Lara moments together near the end

Dislike:

-Doppleganger
-Eitr
-Eitr beings
-How Lara's mum died. It wasn't built up properly or given the emotion it needed.
-Valhalla
-Avalon not being Avalon but some base near the north pole
-I didn't hate it but I wasn't really into all the Norse stuff.
-Blowing up Croft Manor

Evil Doggos · 30-08-21, 00:52

Opinions change I guess and while the game has bugs and issues, it is easily better than 2013, Rise and Shadow. Been a year and a half but it is a fun game with some of the best levels in the franchise to date. I put it above Legends even. I appreciate the open levels and the way it encouraged exploration. Combat felt too easy though.

Elmer · 24-08-22, 19:42

I never played through Underworld before. I stopped halfway through Thailand back in 2009, but now I plan on completing it. I'm at the Mexico level now and I'm not having a bad time with it, but I still think it's flawed in a fundamental way. I've tried to write down my thoughts and it may seem like I'm slogging through the game, having a horrible time

Don't worry though, it's not as bad as all that. I'm still having fun with it, being critical is part of the fun. But I'll stick to a one-sided criticism for now. Here goes!

The control system has little flow to it. In part this is an unintended result of a little thing that was designed to help the player – the stagger animation. Yes, it can save you from falling off a cliff, but it will also slow you down without reason by triggering when you just want to walk off some waist-high block. This happens a lot, resulting in a pervading sense of slowness that is compounded by other quirks of the game. If you want Lara to make a sharp turn while standing at a ledge, for example, it can take her more than a second to respond – and if this slow turn leads her to another ledge, she will still stagger before walking off. Other things that can throw off my groove are Lara clipping into objects and getting stuck on shrubbery or gentle slopes.

The deeper problem however is that the rules for traversal are not consistent or clear. This to me is a serious problem, because I view Tomb Raider as essentially a traversal game, a platformer. The ability to climb and jump are its fundamentals. The classics are as great as they are because Lara had a clear, precise and predictable move-set that fitted the game-world like hand in glove because her movements and the world were mapped on the same grid. In the classics every platform within reach feels inherently climbable. In those games it is possible to know at a glance what you can and cannot do.

In this respect the classics are eminently fair and Underworld is not. Lara’s movements are not consistent, the controls are not precise, platforms don’t feel inherently climbable. Completely level blocks with clear edges within reach should always be mountable, but they are not. The large platform in Mexico that rises out of the ground is a clear instance of this. Some waist-high blocks can't even be climbed, and some can only be jumped onto, provided you jump from the right direction. In short: you cannot see at a glance what you can and cannot do. Taken together with the quirks in animation, this hinders any sense of free movement and unencumbered exploration. If you want to try everything that seems possible, there will be a lot of trial and error involved and often you’ll lose your footing on what appears to be solid ground.

Edit: Haha, I rediscovered the Underworld UNappreciation thread

Maybe I should have posted over there

LNSNHGTDS · 28-08-22, 07:22

I did an entire series playthrough in 2020 and made a thread about it and my thoughts haven't changed much since then.

The first time I played Underworld was on PS2 and... It wasn't good... So when I finally had a PS3 and got it as part of the Trilogy I was blown away by how much better it was in every single way. The game is pretty, even by today's standards, Thailand is hands down the prettiest location ever made in the series. I love how agile Lara is. Even if the transitions inbetween her animations are weird, I love the sheer ammount of moves she is able to perform. I miss acrobatic Lara so much! The story, although not as good as Legend's, is not that bad and I felt like it wrapped things up in a, relatively, satisfying way. Puzzles were a little bit better and the levels were bigger, allowing for more exploration. I actually got lost a few times the first time I was playing the PS3 version of the game, particularly in the underwater levels so making things less linear than before was definitely a fun factor. I of course have to talk about the ****ty camera though because it was even more annoying than I actually remembered. Lastly, the combat system is also something they could have worked on a bit more. It's definitely more challenging than Legend's, even Anniversary's, but it still needed a little work. I like the fact that she can shoot at two targets at the same time though or underwater or while climbing and her kicks were awesome. Adrenaline meter was kinda cool but at the same time you could still play the game without ever really using it, making it a bit redundant.

An 8 / 10 game overall, definitely within the top ten games of the series.

Elmer · 30-08-22, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LNSNHGTDS

I did an entire series playthrough in 2020 and made a thread about it and my thoughts haven't changed much since then.

...

An 8 / 10 game overall, definitely within the top ten games of the series.

I've read your reviews and I commend you for how well you avoided bias

Your list doesn't show a general preference for any particular era and even though Legend has a special place in your heart, it's quite far down on it. Although I must say that the differences in rating between numbers 8. and 4. are very small, which suggests that these games are pretty much equally good overall.

I wondered about something though. if you compare this list with your personal, idiosyncratic preferences, are they very different?

I've just completed Underworld by the way and I'm not sure yet what to think of it. Maybe I am a bit too harsh on it. But for now it does feel like it's my least favourite. I haven't played the second reboot yet, though, or any of the spinoffs.

I do have a marked preference for the classics. In part undoubtably because they happen to open up a magic portal to my childhood self

But I think it's not just the nostalgia. It's reasoned judgement too, I think. Maybe I should take your example and try to untangle the two sometime. It's just... what else is there to rely on, apart from personal preference? Other people's preference I guess.

08-08-21, 10:59	#31
DOPE Relic Hunter Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 8,992	I liked how colorful Thailand was, some parts of Mexico I consider good, the Manor level and Lara’s movement system when the controls don’t glitch.. everything else a mess. __________________ if everybody likes it maybe it’s not that good Last edited by DOPE; 08-08-21 at 11:00.

19-08-21, 17:37	#36
Blackmoor Tomb Raider Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: In the woods at night (female) Posts: 14,915	Like: -"Drop it, Zip, or I'll drop you" -"I need Thor's belt to get his hammer, and I need the hammer to kill a god". -Mexico and Thailand graphics -Some of Lara's movements - very gymnastic-y -Some of the Amanda / Lara moments together near the end Dislike: -Doppleganger -Eitr -Eitr beings -How Lara's mum died. It wasn't built up properly or given the emotion it needed. -Valhalla -Avalon not being Avalon but some base near the north pole -I didn't hate it but I wasn't really into all the Norse stuff. -Blowing up Croft Manor __________________ Not all those who wander are lost ✻

30-08-21, 00:52	#37
Evil Doggos Student Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 144	Opinions change I guess and while the game has bugs and issues, it is easily better than 2013, Rise and Shadow. Been a year and a half but it is a fun game with some of the best levels in the franchise to date. I put it above Legends even. I appreciate the open levels and the way it encouraged exploration. Combat felt too easy though. __________________ Nnnnnno!

24-08-22, 19:42	#38
Elmer Archaeologist Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Netherlands \| Gender: Male Posts: 2,043	I never played through Underworld before. I stopped halfway through Thailand back in 2009, but now I plan on completing it. I'm at the Mexico level now and I'm not having a bad time with it, but I still think it's flawed in a fundamental way. I've tried to write down my thoughts and it may seem like I'm slogging through the game, having a horrible time Don't worry though, it's not as bad as all that. I'm still having fun with it, being critical is part of the fun. But I'll stick to a one-sided criticism for now. Here goes! The control system has little flow to it. In part this is an unintended result of a little thing that was designed to help the player – the stagger animation. Yes, it can save you from falling off a cliff, but it will also slow you down without reason by triggering when you just want to walk off some waist-high block. This happens a lot, resulting in a pervading sense of slowness that is compounded by other quirks of the game. If you want Lara to make a sharp turn while standing at a ledge, for example, it can take her more than a second to respond – and if this slow turn leads her to another ledge, she will still stagger before walking off. Other things that can throw off my groove are Lara clipping into objects and getting stuck on shrubbery or gentle slopes. The deeper problem however is that the rules for traversal are not consistent or clear. This to me is a serious problem, because I view Tomb Raider as essentially a traversal game, a platformer. The ability to climb and jump are its fundamentals. The classics are as great as they are because Lara had a clear, precise and predictable move-set that fitted the game-world like hand in glove because her movements and the world were mapped on the same grid. In the classics every platform within reach feels inherently climbable. In those games it is possible to know at a glance what you can and cannot do. In this respect the classics are eminently fair and Underworld is not. Lara’s movements are not consistent, the controls are not precise, platforms don’t feel inherently climbable. Completely level blocks with clear edges within reach should always be mountable, but they are not. The large platform in Mexico that rises out of the ground is a clear instance of this. Some waist-high blocks can't even be climbed, and some can only be jumped onto, provided you jump from the right direction. In short: you cannot see at a glance what you can and cannot do. Taken together with the quirks in animation, this hinders any sense of free movement and unencumbered exploration. If you want to try everything that seems possible, there will be a lot of trial and error involved and often you’ll lose your footing on what appears to be solid ground. Edit: Haha, I rediscovered the Underworld UNappreciation thread Maybe I should have posted over there __________________ If I was you I would do the very same thing... 68th GROWLer! Last edited by Elmer; 28-08-22 at 18:59.

28-08-22, 07:22	#39
LNSNHGTDS Tomb Raider Join Date: May 2010 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 10,903	I did an entire series playthrough in 2020 and made a thread about it and my thoughts haven't changed much since then. The first time I played Underworld was on PS2 and... It wasn't good... So when I finally had a PS3 and got it as part of the Trilogy I was blown away by how much better it was in every single way. The game is pretty, even by today's standards, Thailand is hands down the prettiest location ever made in the series. I love how agile Lara is. Even if the transitions inbetween her animations are weird, I love the sheer ammount of moves she is able to perform. I miss acrobatic Lara so much! The story, although not as good as Legend's, is not that bad and I felt like it wrapped things up in a, relatively, satisfying way. Puzzles were a little bit better and the levels were bigger, allowing for more exploration. I actually got lost a few times the first time I was playing the PS3 version of the game, particularly in the underwater levels so making things less linear than before was definitely a fun factor. I of course have to talk about the ****ty camera though because it was even more annoying than I actually remembered. Lastly, the combat system is also something they could have worked on a bit more. It's definitely more challenging than Legend's, even Anniversary's, but it still needed a little work. I like the fact that she can shoot at two targets at the same time though or underwater or while climbing and her kicks were awesome. Adrenaline meter was kinda cool but at the same time you could still play the game without ever really using it, making it a bit redundant. An 8 / 10 game overall, definitely within the top ten games of the series. __________________ "I'm not who you think I am" - Lara Croft

08-08-21, 14:45	#32
Frceghst8 Historian Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 315	@ Dope : Aww, you didn't like the Norse mythology in game? I wish they would have expanded on it. Just imo.

16-08-21, 16:59	#33
Mr. Mr. Hobbyist Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 43	I wanted to like this game. I really, really did. But it just has too many game-breaking bugs to enjoy. There were two separate instances where I was unable to complete a level because of a major bug that forced me to start the level all over again- one in Thailand (lever didn't appear) and the other in Mexico (an item I picked up earlier in the level was strangely not in my inventory at the end). Also, I think it was a mistake for the first level of the game (not counting the flash forward in Lara's Home) involved swimming, especially since it's a fetch quest to enter the main underground area.

17-08-21, 12:51	#34
Frceghst8 Historian Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 315	Xbox version or PC version? ^

19-08-21, 16:38	#35
Mr. Mr. Hobbyist Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 43	The lever bug was in the Wii version, the inventory bug was in the XBox 360 version. I fared better in the PS3 version included in the HD Trilogy, though.