The Occultic Arts

[Ashnod]

Originally Posted by HarleyCroft

I call it magick? Haven't found a better term. I like it, it's secular and catch-all. If the feeling was provable and quantifiable, it would be science. Psychology is all results instead of tangible proof and it's widely accepted even though our understanding of the meatcomputer in our heads is in its infancy at best.

Science isn't separate from magick. Science is a method, a means of examining and investigating. All of the research that would go into writing spell books, ritual manuals, defining which candles to use, which metals to include, etc. That's all essentially science, except for the backing evidence.

Understanding in its infancy, or understanding subject to revisions when additional data demands an accepted model be reexamined, does not disqualify it.

Trying to separate it from this, by insisting it must be otherwise it would cease being magick, is special pleading.

[HarleyCroft]

Special pleading.. that's a new one to me!
Is the whole purpose of this to make me disbelieve in magick? You can be honest

[Ashnod]

Originally Posted by HarleyCroft

Special pleading.. that's a new one to me!
Is the whole purpose of this to make me disbelieve in magick? You can be honest

No, I'm trying to explain why the common explanations, such as magick is separate from science, are uncompelling to me. Why I stopped believing and stopped practicing it.

[HarleyCroft]

I am for studying every possible aspect of phenomena and NOT using "magic" as an explanation. Technology is above all. But science and magick have always been friends, and once magick is proven, it becomes science. Hence Alchemy-->Chemistry.

Maybe the perceptions and influence are all in my head then? All I know is coincidences and fortune have been happening with more frequency ever since I've fully embraced this interest that I've always had despite the majority of people I've opened up to tell me it's utterly false. Honestly this conversation is nothing new to me

I've sort of concluded long ago that trying to learn a specific type of ritual from one main spiritual source is conformity, the opposite of magick. I call upon no gods or human superstition. I am the Origin. If it all is just a distilled form of self-esteem that I've never had before then that works well enough for me.

I apologize for not being compelling And am truly sorry magick isn't real for you

[Ashnod]

Originally Posted by HarleyCroft

And am truly sorry magick isn't real for you

That's the kind of dismissive attitude I'm speaking of. The idea that I'm somehow not open to it, thus it isn't real for me.

Either it is real or it is not. My input in this is relevant.

[HarleyCroft]

You think it is false, I think it is real.
We could continue to discuss it if you want but you literally just dismissed my understanding of the unconceptual concept so.. where do we go from here?

[Ashnod]

Originally Posted by HarleyCroft

You think it is false, I think it is real.
We could continue to discuss it if you want but you literally just dismissed my understanding of the unconceptual concept so.. where do we go from here?

We walk away and let the discussion rest. I doubt either of us can convince the other of our respective position.

[HarleyCroft]

Originally Posted by Ashnod

We walk away and let the discussion rest. I doubt either of us can convince the other of our respective position.

I suppose that would be the best course of action..Thank you for engaging, I like putting thoughts into words

It takes courage to make such a lifestyle/belief change after spending so much time and personal energy into it. While not all change is growth, all growth is maturity. May I ask what you do for a profession now? Do you currently have any sort of creator/afterlife beliefs? (If you don't mind me asking after we both agreed to part ways. I would take any answer whether it's long, short or "**** off") I usually say Unaffiliated for simplicity's sake when asked.. even saying Agnostic sounds like a damn religion

[Ashnod]

Originally Posted by HarleyCroft

It takes courage to make such a lifestyle/belief change after spending so much time and personal energy into it. While not all change is growth, all growth is maturity. May I ask what you do for a profession now? Do you currently have any sort of creator/afterlife beliefs? (If you don't mind me asking after we both agreed to part ways. I would take any answer whether it's long, short or "**** off") I usually say Unaffiliated for simplicity's sake when asked.. even saying Agnostic sounds like a damn religion

I don't mind. I am not offended, annoyed, or angry at the conversation. Discussing things like this usually lead to roadblocks, and it is healthy to acknowledge them instead of smacking into them repeatedly hoping for a different outcome.

I am a technical writer and eLearning developer for a fairly large company.

And at the moment, no, I have no creator entity or afterlife beliefs. I did hold them once. I have become exceptionally skeptical after setting down my crystals and cards. At this point, I very much hold the opinion that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[HarleyCroft]

Originally Posted by Ashnod

I very much hold the opinion that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Very well put

I'm glad you found a vocation better suited for you I am admittedly sort of lost and not sure what my calling is right now Sometimes I fall victim to the idea magick can solve some of life's big problems, even though that is probably the one true rule that all magickal practitioners agree upon.

Learned that one back in the day from the Sword in the Stone. As well as -much like a gun is only as big as the person holding it- magick is only as powerful as the logic/drive behind it



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Glamour originally comes from the word 'enchantment' and while it's come to mean fancy and extravagant in magick it still means appearing as something you're not.

Black eyeliner is great but there's something about white facepaint in combination... It's not quite a glamour because it's not used to mask but instead is an expression of inside. I love the concept of being judged based on personality alone.







Pennywise is the only example here that is pure evil (I like the It movies but he ain't my boy) and I don't think this scene would be so impactful if he wasn't clowning up. Ugh, you would have to press so hard to scratch through greasepaint like that



Fun fact: I can roll one eye to the side like Bill Skarsgård can. In days of old, apparently doing that to someone is a form of The Evil Eye. Once I used it to end a convo with a creepy guy who wouldn't go away because it's not very sexy lol

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"Feel demons here, Mal?"
"I think WE'RE the demons"