www.tombraiderforums.com  

Go Back   www.tombraiderforums.com > Tomb Raider Franchise > Tomb Raider 25

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 28-11-22, 13:27   #51
.snake.
Inactive
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 3,382
Default

Finally got around to watching this. It was interesting listening to them all speak.

I thought Meagan's experiences with TR felt very honest and genuine and I'm glad she actually acknowledged the fact that classic Lara's bio involves the Himalayan plane crash at age 21, since few at Crystal ever seem to honor the original canon. I don't know much about Dallas, but I honestly wouldn't mind it if a Classic fan like Meagan was the lead on the project or perhaps more involved with executive decisions rather than just being a CM.

What I found hilarious though (and this ties in with what people said above) is Jason Botta's commentary on their "crazy" ideas for Ascension. Lara battling demons, monsters, and supernatural entities was too "crazy" for TR they thought and would take the series away and turn it into something else. All this clearly shows that to this day this still don't have an inkling of what TR is.

While I don't like all the ideas in Ascension, it certainly seems to have had more of an isolation and supernatural aspect than TR2013 did with its gaggle of characters and constant cutscenes and character dialogue. Ascension will always be Crystal's greatest missed opportunity.
.snake. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-22, 13:46   #52
biscuits
Relic Hunter
 
biscuits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 5,801
Default

They can always still go back to it as a concept for a the next game or a new ip. Ascension wasn't originally an origin story.
biscuits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-22, 14:29   #53
.snake.
Inactive
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 3,382
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuits View Post
They can always still go back to it as a concept for a the next game or a new ip. Ascension wasn't originally an origin story.
You're right.

If the next game flops and TR needs to die and reboot again, I hope they go the survival horror route as their route of experimentation... rather than the save-my-lesbian-friend-and-the-entire-ship-crew experimentation they ended up going with for the franchise.
.snake. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-22, 14:33   #54
jeffrey van oort
Relic Hunter
 
jeffrey van oort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 5,927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jajay119 View Post
No, THIS is sarcasm, right? Crystal had nothing to do with TR when it was a trend setter. That was Core.
To continue with the trend starter is to keep that history alive. Even if they hadn't started this themselves.

It isn't about the ability to do so. With TRLE anyone could.

Any game now, is doing this. Using 3D inspired by Tomb Raider technology.

The sarcastic remark is the full knowledge that they would ship that tech. That is sarcastic.
__________________
Flames would not be eternal if they could dissolve.
jeffrey van oort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-22, 14:46   #55
Xilurm
Historian
 
Xilurm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Greece
Posts: 481
Default

This was cool. I like this kind of format way more than just normal interviews.

Them talking about making Legend and about Lara's character and looks was pretty nostalgic, even though I've only played it once. I need to replay Legend and then play the rest of the LAU trilogy though, because looking at this the gameplay looks more fun than what we have right now...

Maegan's description about how she felt about Lara's character is pretty much the same as the opinion of everyone who wants the old Lara back. It's pretty sad how during the LAU era they wanted to appease the fans, making sure they are happy with everything, gameplay, Lara's character and looks, but then went completely 180 on the reboot. They are wrong about saying that the reboot kept the heart of what Tomb Raider was, it's not. It's a completely different thing, Lara is a completely different person.

It's so sad...

Last edited by Xilurm; 29-11-22 at 14:47.
Xilurm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-22, 17:26   #56
VictorXD
Relic Hunter
 
VictorXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: ฿-₳-฿-¥-⍸L-⌽-₦
Posts: 9,700
Default

It's funny because that documentary just proves that CD is a very competent studio filled with amazing talent, but it's the higher ups that make questionable decisions that aways backfire. I mean the bit about TRA says millions on the way they handled Lara and the gameplay in general. It's like they just skimmed through hand written notes and created the games.

"We started making TRA and then we realised how big TR1 was so we cut down the majority of areas"... I mean **** if you actually played the game and understood the source material you'd know that before signing up to remake the game.

You can really tell why the only reason TR is such a mess of a franchise today is because CD have completely misunderstood Lara and TR since 2006.
__________________
Persecution to all non Luds Gate believers may God's wrath fall upon you sinners
VictorXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-22, 18:32   #57
Moon-Safari
Tomb Raider
 
Moon-Safari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New York City Gender: Male
Posts: 10,083
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorXD View Post
You can really tell why the only reason TR is such a mess of a franchise today is because CD have completely misunderstood Lara and TR since 2006.
Anniversary is one of my favorite CD games. It deserves to be remastered into a masterpiece. All it needs is every room that was cut out, and an expansion on the levels and gameplay even more. More new things to discover, more gameplay systems, more combat options.

But yes they have misunderstood the brand. They turned TR into a saturday morning cartoon series version of the disney movie. It's like going from Aladdin to the cartoon show. But it was at least fun. The LAU trilogy feels like a day at the waterpark. The vibe is so fun. The reboot is so boring and bland. They can really do something different now.

I still didn't see the CD documentary. I think we need a new game announcement because I haven't been able to get into any of the behind the scenes stuff they've been putting out. I'm kind of sour to the brand or just completely bored with them. I hope they drop some teasers soon.
__________________
Whosoever is delighted in solitude is either a wild beast or a god -Aristotle
Moon-Safari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-22, 09:39   #58
Vaskito
Tomb Raider
 
Vaskito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 11,455
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorXD View Post
"We started making TRA and then we realised how big TR1 was so we cut down the majority of areas"... I mean **** if you actually played the game and understood the source material you'd know that before signing up to remake the game.
Did you misunderstand the context? They've said they had only 9 months to make it, so cuts were necessary so they'd make meetings and decide which locations were the most iconic and were mandatory to be in the game, and which were not and could be cut to spare time.

For me personally, TRA did an amazing job recreating TR1, and I'm glad it didn't turn out to be a 1on1 recreation.
__________________
We found each other through brokenness and now look how strong we are
Vaskito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-22, 14:42   #59
jajay119
Tomb Raider
 
jajay119's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23,967
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UroshUchiha View Post
My thoughts exactly.

Also, hearing that TRA was made in only 9 months, woah. Impressive.
Less impressive when TR2-5 was made in the same or similar amount of time. I also found it a pretty poor excuse to cut things out given every game after the first felt longer. That's just my opinion on the matter, though.

It was nice to hear them talk about how much they respected Core and were fans though as I think many people like to imply there was a lot of beef. It's also interesting to hear that Crystal offered Core their engine. I'm not going to lie, before Legend I do feel like it looked very janky... but I still think it could have served them well in AOD rather than having to redesign their own and waste time there.

I did find a lot of the comments surrounding the reboot interesting to listen to. I found it funny that they decided to move away from the more fantastical elements of the early 2013 concepts as they didn't feel like it fit the series. Personally I think it would have fit very well and given one of the main complaints of the reboot era seems to have been boring and repetitive enemies with no variation and a lack of supernatural enemies, I don't know whether it was the best call. Obviously the reboot era has done well, but I don't think it needed to be an 'either/or' situation.

I am disappointed they didn't talk more about Underworld, but given this was meant to be a celebration of CD I get why they didn't as it's arguably not a success story for them.
__________________
... in my opinion.

Last edited by jajay119; 30-11-22 at 14:54.
jajay119 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-22, 23:42   #60
VictorXD
Relic Hunter
 
VictorXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: ฿-₳-฿-¥-⍸L-⌽-₦
Posts: 9,700
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post
Did you misunderstand the context? They've said they had only 9 months to make it
I didn't. And I do think it's impressive they build the game in less than a year. But the thing is, if you are remaking something, you need to be aware of what made the original work so well and expand on it. One of the things TR1 did well was it's length, so obviously the scope of the game needs to be taken into consideration before you attempt to remake it.

If you don't have enough time to create what you set out to, it's better to wait for when you have time to spare or you make a smaller project. Hell you can even extent the deadline. And again: this is a remake. Since 1996 it has been proven to be possible to incorporate all gameplay elements TR1 has AND keep the length of the game intact. The source material was there since day one, it has never been a surprise how massive the game is. Being a good professional, regardless of area, includes knowing what you can and can't do with the deadline you have. If you don't have the time/team to make something, then just don't.

Quote:
so cuts were necessary so they'd make meetings and decide which locations were the most iconic and were mandatory to be in the game, and which were not and could be cut to spare time.
Exactly. But the thing is, those meetings shouldn't even be taking place at all. Of course that when you remake a game "what are we going to cut?" is always something that needs to be asked, but it shouldn't be a recurring theme for meetings in order for you to finish the game on time. This is bad time management at the very least.


Quote:
For me personally, TRA did an amazing job recreating TR1, and I'm glad it didn't turn out to be a 1on1 recreation.
Well yeah, I'm sorry but you have a rather superficial view of what made TR good back in the 90's, and it's hardly a secret how you don't see what the fuss about TR1 is about. You've said that you don't see the difference between TRA and Nicobass' TR2 remake, and that alone speaks volumes about how you put much more weight in the similar visual than the actual gameplay differences between them, and how Nicobass' fine tuning when it comes to gameplay made a massive difference, even though animations and moves were extremely close. Please don't take this as a personal insult or me trying to be condescending, I'm just saying why I think to you TRA feels like a better remake than it is.

I'm not saying TRA is hopeless or even a horrible remake. It's a decent game and there are a lot of improvements in some areas, but the thing is: plenty of other companies at the time (and most of all today) had already proven you can remake a game and improve on all aspects of it without taking away such massive amounts of content.
__________________
Persecution to all non Luds Gate believers may God's wrath fall upon you sinners

Last edited by VictorXD; 30-11-22 at 23:45.
VictorXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 18:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.