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Old 14-11-22, 12:28   #1
fallenangle
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Default TR4 No Scratch Questions

Replaying TR4 again, no scratch, and I thought it might be useful to have a dedicated thread on this matter and because I have questions myself.

The first place I have had problems with finding a solution too, if there is one, is in the Tomb Of Seth, is getting to the 'Uzis' pick-up from the secret room with the revolving blade.

To get to the passage that leads to the 'Uzis' you have to jump from a platform to a raised plinth in that passageway. If LC lands too near the front edge you are in risk of being chopped by the revolving blade.

That's easy enough to avoid but no matter where you land on the plinth LC receives 1% - 5% damage just because of the height down to it from the jump platform.

I tried the 'trick' used at the start of the TR2 Opera House level where the trap door opens in a roof opposite the start platform and if you get the jump right you can land inside the room without damage if you clip the edge of the roof.

That does not work here because the roof landing in that TR case causes no damaged. In TR4 landing on the plinth by any method I've tried causes damage to LC whether she slips off the side or not.

Is there any known solution?
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Old 14-11-22, 23:01   #2
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I honestly have no idea and Iím sorry I canít help more because no-scratch usually doesnít interest me; although Iím in awe of the people who do it.

A zero meds playthrough of TR4 is enough challenge for me (unless you semi cheat with all the level jumps and go back frequently for a boost, then it becomes easy peasy).

But Iím curious to see how you plan on doing no-scratch for the rotating cogs in Lost Library. Going down is easy, itís coming up I could never figure out for how no-scratchers do it.
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Old 15-11-22, 00:26   #3
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Yes, it is possible there going down, that I remember, I did it on my last run through a which now must be getting on for a couple of years ago.

Going back up it is difficult to avoid damage. I think I asked about it back then so there's probably a reply (likely Laravision) in a thread which I now can't find. However I seem to remember the technique involved moving up the pole so LC has her back to one of the corners and then back-flipping off the pole at just the right time.

Whether that was a no damage or minimal damage solution, again I can not remember.

There's also that other level with a similar pole where LC is attacked by scarabs the moment she's at floor level. What I remember about that is it is apparently possible to get away, do whatever has to be done there and get back up the pole without damage.

But it is very difficult and relies on random chance - I'm pretty sure I accepted the sliver of damage I got there after repeating it at least two dozen times without total success.
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Old 15-11-22, 01:10   #4
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Yeah exactly, going down the poles with the cogs is easy (I just use the ledge-drop bug) but climbing up is what's so difficult. I can do it without dying though, but my health is still very low.

The scarabs are definitely another tough challenge, although I can't think of which moment you mean. In Semerkhet it is possible to avoid taking any damage from them... I think.

I also think the opening of City of the Dead where you're automatically under fire must be impossible, and then running past the turrets later to get to the room with the draggable corpse. I can't imagine how one can do all of that with NO scratch.
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Old 15-11-22, 15:36   #5
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It's been a while since I've played TR4, and I can't quite remember that drop near the blade. If you're unable to find a way to avoid damage, I'd say just trigger the secret and bypass the uzis altogether.

You may wish to refer to Eycore's TR4 No Damage All Secrets No Saves attempt for a few strategies. Do note though, that it is a glitched run, so he'll be skipping many crucial parts. I can't recall whether glitchless no damage in TR4 was fully looked into; it's not likely to be possible, especially without saves (though I know you're not interested in the no saves aspect).
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Old 15-11-22, 15:53   #6
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I've done City Of the Dead and the start is not impossible if you're ready to move and find the safe positions/techniques for moving down the road to take out the gunmen and fixed guns. But later I remember there's another fixed gun, I think it is that task you mentioned, which you can't do without some damage.

Currently I've just finished KV5 where the no scratch difficulty ramps up, like the previous level, because of the gunmen. Always hated the fact you can't loot their guns and I find the suddenly they're there shortcuts back to cover up the failings in the level/gameplay design annoying likewise.

You don't actually need the Land Rover at all after the first un-climbable hill in Valley Of The Kings and you can go back afterwards and do, I think, all of it and KV5 on foot. Why did they made the use of the vehicle mandatory at the start and just have on foot shortcuts as an alternative solution to progress if you didn't find the car keys?

Only thing I can think of is that they already committed to the FMV showing her driving the Land Rover onto to the ferry at the end of KV5 and that didn't make sense if she'd left it behind and done the those two levels all on foot.
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Old 15-11-22, 16:01   #7
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The Uzis are not the secret, getting to that area is what triggers the secret.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-PYpbCAT3o

see from 4'30" and the jump to plinth at 5'40".

The Uzis are a reward for using the alternative route back to where you started with the rope swing.

But once you made the pickups in the rotating blade room there's nothing to stop you going back the way you came into that area, you just miss the chance to pick up the Uzis.

Last edited by fallenangle; 15-11-22 at 16:04.
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Old 15-11-22, 17:16   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenangle View Post
The Uzis are not the secret, getting to that area is what triggers the secret.
I know, you can simply retrace your steps/turn around after triggering the secret. This is what I meant when I said "If you're unable to find a way to avoid damage, I'd say just trigger the secret and bypass the Uzis altogether."
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Old 15-11-22, 20:26   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenangle View Post
You don't actually need the Land Rover at all after the first un-climbable hill in Valley Of The Kings and you can go back afterwards and do, I think, all of it and KV5 on foot. Why did they made the use of the vehicle mandatory at the start and just have on foot shortcuts as an alternative solution to progress if you didn't find the car keys?

Only thing I can think of is that they already committed to the FMV showing her driving the Land Rover onto to the ferry at the end of KV5 and that didn't make sense if she'd left it behind and done the those two levels all on foot.
I'm pretty sure this is done to avoid the soft-lock that could happen in the level if the player decides to drive up certain ramps, but then exits the car and slides back down the ramp - they'd need a way to get back up. So, the level builder triggered those raising blocks to go down revealing the hidden passages in the caves that you can now climb.

I guess they hid the passages behind the RBs in order to force players to drive the vehicle.
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Old 16-11-22, 00:46   #10
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I think there is only that first hill that LC can't navigate on foot, that's what I meant.

After that are there any places you need to go back to get the vehicle? I can't think of any in KV5 and, as said, I'm struggling to think of any other in the The Valley Of The Kings. There are places you can't go back but when you don't have to why did they both with the shortcuts?

My theory is they put those in because they had not thought out the gameplay sufficiently.

The shortcuts are totally(?) unnecessary for getting through thosee levels because you need the Land Rover to get up that first hill. So the magic shortcut back to the beginning is itself actually redundant. Why do you need to go back there? There's no vital pickup

I seem to remember that in KV5 if you try to exit without the Land Rover there's a problem. I might check that again later but if true they're effectively forcing you to use the Land Rover to exit and the only reason at that point is so that it fits in with the next FMV.

In TR2 they did not mind you not using the skidoos in the Himalayan Foot Hills, providing an alternative on foot route which is arguably more interesting.
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