TR4 No Scratch Questions - Page 2

xtimz · 16-11-22, 01:09

The very last slope also needs the jeep.

.snake. · 16-11-22, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallenangle

I think there is only that first hill that LC can't navigate on foot, that's what I meant.

After that are there any places you need to go back to get the vehicle? I can't think of any in KV5 and, as said, I'm struggling to think of any other in the The Valley Of The Kings. There are places you can't go back but when you don't have to why did they both with the shortcuts?

My theory is they put those in because they had not thought out the gameplay sufficiently.

The shortcuts are totally(?) unnecessary for getting through thosee levels because you need the Land Rover to get up that first hill. So the magic shortcut back to the beginning is itself actually redundant. Why do you need to go back there? There's no vital pickup

I seem to remember that in KV5 if you try to exit without the Land Rover there's a problem. I might check that again later but if true they're effectively forcing you to use the Land Rover to exit and the only reason at that point is so that it fits in with the next FMV.

In TR2 they did not mind you not using the skidoos in the Himalayan Foot Hills, providing an alternative on foot route which is arguably more interesting.

The point is: you don’t NEED to go back there, but you COULD go back there and end up getting soft locked if you left the vehicle at an out of reach spot.

fallenangle · 16-11-22, 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtimz

The very last slope also needs the jeep.

Yep, I've literally just been replaying the end of KV5 and indeed that is the case.

Quote:

The point is: you don’t NEED to go back there, but you COULD go back there and end up getting soft locked if you left the vehicle at an out of reach spot.

Yes, I suppose so. If you get out of the Land Rover at the top of the and slide back down the unclimbable slope you would be stuck without the provided shortcut. But I think that is the only case where that is true.

With KV5 you can complete the whole level on foot, and no scratch you do need to do most of it that way to be able to take out the gunmen without damage. But then they put in that final slope which needs the vehicle to exit which is an unnecessary stricture only there I believe to fit in with the following FMV.

Again referring back to TR2, this time in Venice you can exit the level very easily without the motor boat. But next level, Bartoli's Hideout, LC magically, starts that in the boat however you exited Venice. In that case it is also, arguably more, pointless because you don't need it at all in that level.

.snake. · 16-11-22, 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallenangle

Again referring back to TR2, this time in Venice you can exit the level very easily without the motor boat. But next level, Bartoli's Hideout, LC magically, starts that in the boat however you exited Venice. In that case it is also, arguably more, pointless because you don't need it at all in that level.

Yeah, it's strange in TR2, I can only assume it's that they assumed 95% of players would cross into the next level on the boat, and so they have her sitting in the boat at the start of Hideout.

If you level skip to KV5 or level skip through any of the Cairo levels, the vehicle will automatically be in the level close to Lara's start point. It must be some sort of hardcoded failsafe the level builders put into the game to ensure that if people reach the end of the level (or level skip) without the vehicle, they're not screwed in the next level by not having it.

But yeah, the new paths that get revealed in Valley of the Kings to make sure that people can backtrack in case they lose the jeep are definitely a cheap ploy. Those levels all around are a bit of a disappointment. This is one of the no. 1 locations in Egypt with nothing but tombs to explore, and all we get is a jeep ride through bland terrain. I guess they thought Tomb of Seth and Burial Chambers were enough of a tomb fix for fans after the wasteland of TR3.

fallenangle · 16-11-22, 14:11

Yes, those desert areas are disappointingly empty. After the start area of Valley Of The Kings which augured quite well it goes a bit flat. A few more pickups would have helped and some more places to explore.

When you reach the highest part of that level where there's a hidden gunman at the top of the long dark slope up (the shortcut is triggered and actually useful for taking him out without damage) there's an area of cliffs to the right of the 'road' where it hairpins back. On both sides of the chasm there are flat areas you can see along the cliff edge that look like they were meant to be accessible (possibly a secret area).

I spent some time trying to get to either one but its impossible by conventional means as there are rocks in the way so you can't shimmy. But it just felt to me like they may have thought about putting in a secret area there but at some point decided not to.

fallenangle · 29-11-22, 03:55

Continuing my no scratch run I've discovered plenty of places where you have to accept damage I'd forgotten about like Cleopatra's Palaces. There are two near the end, like similar earlier but optional hang-drop switches in previous levels, you have to use them and take about 25% damage each time.

But I have found the two guardians at the end of that level can be defeated with any weapon, even the pistols, without damage if you go toe to toe with each one in turn. Tumble turn continuously to prevent them going into their kneeling pose which means they're going to fire. The only difficulty comes when the second guardian becomes active.

You have to run and jump closing in on it quickly or its weapon will damage LC.

Talking of which, right at the start of the next level, City Of The Dead, it is very difficult to avoid bullet damage. But I knew it was possible to do it and eventually re-found the solution I'd used last time.

The 'trick' is when you're on the blank screen just before you get to see LC you actually gain control before that.

You need to back-flip at once but with tumble in mid-air (Down + Jump (Square) then Tumble (Circle). You're now facing the locked gate. If you either immediately jump forward or sprint behind the wall with the hang-drop switch above on the right of the gate LC will be out of view of both gunmen and not have taken any hits. If you're lucky.

It is a bit random whether LC does get behind cover unscathed but it does work.

BTW simply back-flipping twice at the moment you gain control did not work for me, you always get LC hit. There's something about the back-flip with tumble that momentarily delays the gunmens' shooting or affects their likelihood of hitting her.

EDIT 04.02.22

I officially hate those locusts in Citadel Gate etc.

Worse than the earlier scarabs and despite the advice to save and reload nothing seems to stop them spawning and doing damage.

There's also the a very annoying steam vents in the Trenches - the first pair you can get through undamaged with perfect timing but with the second pair, the second pipe seems to be impossible get by without damage. Then there's also the one during the shimmying section too.

I don't remember having as much difficulty with the locusts in particular last time I tried TR4 no scratch. Maybe I just accepted the best minimum damage I could manage in those places.

xtimz · 06-12-22, 18:17

Dear fallenangle, the answers are already in the forum, but it seems you want to find them by yourself. So I won't be a spoiler here.

fallenangle · 07-12-22, 01:24

To which in particular? Locusts or steam vents?

The advice for the locusts, detailed in Stella's walkthrough is to save and reload. But on PC I've yet to find any position/place that 'solution' actually works.

For instance after the dragon in Citadel Gate there's a crawl space above the street around the corner with goodies which allows you to bypass the dragon area on return. I've tried that multiple times and get hit by up to four swarms of locusts.

The trigger seems to be LC vaulting up to the crawl space. You can't avoid that damage.

In Street Bazaar near where the electrical discharge thing is you trigger locusts if you move towards the mined bridge. If there is a place you can hide, save and avoid damage on reload I've yet to find it.

Over the other side too there is another swarm waiting for you to hit a trigger point. I have not experiment there thoroughly but saving and reloading certainly did not work for me.

xtimz · 07-12-22, 02:43

^ All of them.
BTW: How come you can't do the save-load thing for the locusts? It's the easiest one.

.snake. · 07-12-22, 12:33

^ You’re not helping by giving vague obscure answers; only trolling.

Fallenangel: The way the save/reload bug for the locusts works when I use it is that I have to keep doing it. The locusts will keep respawning every time you load, so the trick is to just move an inch with Lara, save, reload, move another inch, etc. do this over and over again until you’re out of the mutant’s (dragon’s) zone. It’s annoying af, but it works.

When it comes to the gas pipes, I can’t help much because I’ve had the same problems you’ve mentioned, particularly with the one we have to shimmy past. Maybe xtimz will actually provide a proper answer.

29-11-22, 03:55	#16
fallenangle Archaeologist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: NW London Posts: 2,073	Continuing my no scratch run I've discovered plenty of places where you have to accept damage I'd forgotten about like Cleopatra's Palaces. There are two near the end, like similar earlier but optional hang-drop switches in previous levels, you have to use them and take about 25% damage each time. But I have found the two guardians at the end of that level can be defeated with any weapon, even the pistols, without damage if you go toe to toe with each one in turn. Tumble turn continuously to prevent them going into their kneeling pose which means they're going to fire. The only difficulty comes when the second guardian becomes active. You have to run and jump closing in on it quickly or its weapon will damage LC. Talking of which, right at the start of the next level, City Of The Dead, it is very difficult to avoid bullet damage. But I knew it was possible to do it and eventually re-found the solution I'd used last time. The 'trick' is when you're on the blank screen just before you get to see LC you actually gain control before that. You need to back-flip at once but with tumble in mid-air (Down + Jump (Square) then Tumble (Circle). You're now facing the locked gate. If you either immediately jump forward or sprint behind the wall with the hang-drop switch above on the right of the gate LC will be out of view of both gunmen and not have taken any hits. If you're lucky. It is a bit random whether LC does get behind cover unscathed but it does work. BTW simply back-flipping twice at the moment you gain control did not work for me, you always get LC hit. There's something about the back-flip with tumble that momentarily delays the gunmens' shooting or affects their likelihood of hitting her. EDIT 04.02.22 I officially hate those locusts in Citadel Gate etc. Worse than the earlier scarabs and despite the advice to save and reload nothing seems to stop them spawning and doing damage. There's also the a very annoying steam vents in the Trenches - the first pair you can get through undamaged with perfect timing but with the second pair, the second pipe seems to be impossible get by without damage. Then there's also the one during the shimmying section too. I don't remember having as much difficulty with the locusts in particular last time I tried TR4 no scratch. Maybe I just accepted the best minimum damage I could manage in those places. Last edited by fallenangle; 04-12-22 at 01:05. Reason: typo

16-11-22, 01:09	#11
xtimz Explorer Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Red China Posts: 524	The very last slope also needs the jeep.

16-11-22, 14:11	#15
fallenangle Archaeologist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: NW London Posts: 2,073	Yes, those desert areas are disappointingly empty. After the start area of Valley Of The Kings which augured quite well it goes a bit flat. A few more pickups would have helped and some more places to explore. When you reach the highest part of that level where there's a hidden gunman at the top of the long dark slope up (the shortcut is triggered and actually useful for taking him out without damage) there's an area of cliffs to the right of the 'road' where it hairpins back. On both sides of the chasm there are flat areas you can see along the cliff edge that look like they were meant to be accessible (possibly a secret area). I spent some time trying to get to either one but its impossible by conventional means as there are rocks in the way so you can't shimmy. But it just felt to me like they may have thought about putting in a secret area there but at some point decided not to.

06-12-22, 18:17	#17
xtimz Explorer Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Red China Posts: 524	Dear fallenangle, the answers are already in the forum, but it seems you want to find them by yourself. So I won't be a spoiler here.

07-12-22, 01:24	#18
fallenangle Archaeologist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: NW London Posts: 2,073	To which in particular? Locusts or steam vents? The advice for the locusts, detailed in Stella's walkthrough is to save and reload. But on PC I've yet to find any position/place that 'solution' actually works. For instance after the dragon in Citadel Gate there's a crawl space above the street around the corner with goodies which allows you to bypass the dragon area on return. I've tried that multiple times and get hit by up to four swarms of locusts. The trigger seems to be LC vaulting up to the crawl space. You can't avoid that damage. In Street Bazaar near where the electrical discharge thing is you trigger locusts if you move towards the mined bridge. If there is a place you can hide, save and avoid damage on reload I've yet to find it. Over the other side too there is another swarm waiting for you to hit a trigger point. I have not experiment there thoroughly but saving and reloading certainly did not work for me.

07-12-22, 02:43	#19
xtimz Explorer Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Red China Posts: 524	^ All of them. BTW: How come you can't do the save-load thing for the locusts? It's the easiest one.

07-12-22, 12:33	#20
.snake. Inactive Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York Posts: 3,382	^ You’re not helping by giving vague obscure answers; only trolling. Fallenangel: The way the save/reload bug for the locusts works when I use it is that I have to keep doing it. The locusts will keep respawning every time you load, so the trick is to just move an inch with Lara, save, reload, move another inch, etc. do this over and over again until you’re out of the mutant’s (dragon’s) zone. It’s annoying af, but it works. When it comes to the gas pipes, I can’t help much because I’ve had the same problems you’ve mentioned, particularly with the one we have to shimmy past. Maybe xtimz will actually provide a proper answer.