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Old 19-01-20, 21:23   #411
Vaskito
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We at least had to actually find them.
Which becomes painfully boring, which ends up driving people away. People play games to have fun - most people at least.

Now, I don't mean that reboot TR shouldn't be improved, or get harder actual puzzles - not at all. Go for it, as long as it's cool and makes sense.
Now, putting levers and keys lying at random places, opening random doors, and having movable walls disguised as the rest of the scenario, and do this for the literal entirety of a game, and so on, it just won't stick nowadays.

TR is pretty adventure, mixed with action. I do agree that TR2013 had too much combat - but SOTTR had too little. ROTTR was the perfect balance. Along with the stuff that was added in SOTTR, it would be perfect.

SOTTR did a lot of good in regards to the older TR games, which are simply dismissed over here, and were critized by the gp, being deemed as puzzle simulator and so on.

I've already said multiple times - you shouldn't expect SE/CD/EM to simply drop the current iteration, and go to classic TR. That will NEVER happen, no matter how you like it or not. As some pointed out, when the current iteration ends, and they decide to reboot again (that is, if they don't just put it in hiatus), it's way more likely for it to go to something like LAU, than classic. The formula will most likely be slightly overhauled by TR4, and what I think it makes more sense to hope, is that they continue the work made with SOTTR, wich was already the start of the middle ground between current and past TR. But looking at the picture, and from a business point of view, it's just hard to tell right now.
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Old 19-01-20, 21:26   #412
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It was weird. If you do it again, I’m reporting you :P
+1

I was getting suspicious on Legends getting rebooted a la Tomb Raider.
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Booby traps are not puzzles. They’re just an obstacle to the gameplay, only there to spice everything up.

Block push-pull is a puzzle. Combining artifacts is a puzzle. Finding the combinations for levers/buttons are puzzles. I can’t recall anymore in Classic TR.
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Old 19-01-20, 21:26   #413
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True, but TR 1 was a much bigger success than 2013 since:

1.TR 1 had much less budget compare to 2013.(2013 had 100 million doallrs budget.)
2.2013 also had much more budget for advertisements compare to TR 1.(At 90s games never had that big advertisement money)
3.Also TR 1 was a game that revolutionized gaming and lots of franchises copied some ideas from it. But 2013 was just another 3rd person cover shooter game.

TR 2013 being successful is similar to RE 5 and 6 selling more copies than other RE games.
Action focused games sell more copies than adventure focused games.
I agree with this. One is a 1996 game made by a small group with no advertisement and great level design compared to TR2013, which was created in an era where gaming is earning more than cinema and benefited by one of the most well-known publishers and coming from and established and famous saga.

Not diminishing TR2013, just highlightning the achievements of TR1.
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Old 19-01-20, 21:35   #414
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We’ll just agree to disagree then I guess. I don’t personally consider them puzzles, but I understand your reasoning behind your opinion. And again, I absolutely agree that the traps are more challenging. I just don’t agree that they’re puzzles. But again, just my opinion on it. And who even cares what I think? Haha
I think it's hard to argue that they're puzzle-ish, and even you seem to agree with that when you say you "understand" the "reasoning". Many things in classic TR are like puzzles, from the exploration to the platforming. Combat is a small part that wasn't like that.
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People play games to have fun - most people at least.
Fun is subjective.
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I do agree that TR2013 had too much combat - but SOTTR had too little. ROTTR was the perfect balance. Along with the stuff that was added in SOTTR, it would be perfect.
I played RotTR. It had too much combat.
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SOTTR did a lot of good in regards to the older TR games, which are simply dismissed over here,
I agree that the evolution shouldn't be dismissed.
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The formula will most likely be slightly overhauled by TR4, and what I think it makes more sense to hope, is that they continue the work made with SOTTR, wich was already the start of the middle ground between current and past TR. But looking at the picture, and from a business point of view, it's just hard to tell right now.
I considered SotTR the end of the middle-ground and I fully expect them to have their reboot version of classic TR and reboot version of classic Lara in the coming TR4. They should.
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Old 19-01-20, 21:41   #415
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Yeah, I noticed this too. Signed
I first thought this was another person signing the actual petition, lol.

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It was weird. If you do it again, I’m reporting you :P
Well, I wouldn't want that, lmao. But like the rebooters say, I always get away with everything so I'd probably be okay.

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With that I have to disagree. It impresses me. I think it's less impressive than the original games sales, but still very impressive.
I'll let you have it. You say many other reasonable things, so I'll let it slide. I just disagree that it was impressive (for it's time) with that ridicules budget.

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+1

I was getting suspicious on Legends getting rebooted a la Tomb Raider.
Omfg, stop. That genuinely made me laugh.

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Old 19-01-20, 21:45   #416
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I think it's hard to argue that they're puzzle-ish, and even you seem to agree with that when you say you "understand" the "reasoning". Many things in classic TR are like puzzles, from the exploration to the platforming. Combat is a small part that wasn't like that.
Like I said, I can see how someone can get to that opinion. Puzzles are challenging, and therefore a challenging thing should be considered to be a puzzle.

But that’s not to how I think of them. To me a puzzle is a puzzle. But again, who cares what I think.
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Old 19-01-20, 21:46   #417
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Fun is subjective.
True.

But it's pretty well known that the GP finds more fun in action, than endless hours of nothingness, so a compromise has to be made for the games to succeed.

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I played RotTR. It had too much combat.
So I guess you didn't most TR games post TR1 then

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I considered SotTR the end of the middle-ground and I fully expect them to have their reboot version of classic TR and reboot version of classic Lara in the coming TR4. They should.
Well, then that's an unrealistic expectation. They've stated multiple times that this is a clean slate on the franchise, and this would be the origin story of current iteration of Lara. Classic TR and Classic Lara were never made by them, so if anything, they could only revert to LAU
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Old 19-01-20, 21:51   #418
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Like I said, I can see how someone can get to that opinion. Puzzles are challenging, and therefore a challenging thing should be considered to be a puzzle.

But that’s not to how I think of them. To me a puzzle is a puzzle.
I also don't think they are puzzles, but they have some elements commonly found in puzzles. A more correct way to refer to them would probably be "problem-solving", although that can also be misinterpreted because it's too general. The way in which things are puzzle-like in nature without actually being puzzles is by giving you a set of actions you must take that you have to figure out the order and the how to do it.

For example, the only difference between classic TR's exploration and an actual puzzle is that sometimes you don't have all the pieces to solve the exploration puzzle (and sometimes you do), so it's like a puzzle mixed with exploration. You have things you must make, like in a puzzle, in a correct order, like in a puzzle, in a certain way (like in a puzzle) and you have to discover that through trial-and-error. The difference is it's mixed with exploration so you have to find the pieces of the puzzle too.
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So I guess you didn't most TR games post TR1 then
Combat is much more tolerable in classic TR because it's barely-there, being autoaim and all. Plus, classic TR didn't confine you to arenas, so you could many times skip combat. I also find awful to have to fight hordes, few enemies per encounter is more interesting to me.
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Well, then that's an unrealistic expectation. They've stated multiple times that this is a clean slate on the franchise, and this would be the origin story of current iteration of Lara. Classic TR and Classic Lara were never made by them, so if anything, they could only revert to LAU
I don't think it's unrealistic at all. Origin is over. And just because classic wasn't made by them doesn't mean they can't refer back to it. In fact, they absolutely should, after all this is the Tomb Raider franchise those classics created. And I don't think they should have this prejudice you reboot fans seem to think is unavoidable for them to have.
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Old 19-01-20, 21:53   #419
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Well, then that's an unrealistic expectation. They've stated multiple times that this is a clean slate on the franchise, and this would be the origin story of current iteration of Lara. Classic TR and Classic Lara were never made by them, so if anything, they could only revert to LAU
I somewhat disagree with that. If they wanted, they could create a character similar to Classic Lara. They could even come up with something completely new or just stick to what they built up since TR2013. Everything would be fine by me, I loved every era of the franchise so far and I‘m sure I will in the future.
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Old 19-01-20, 22:12   #420
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I somewhat disagree with that. If they wanted, they could create a character similar to Classic Lara. They could even come up with something completely new or just stick to what they built up since TR2013. Everything would be fine by me, I loved every era of the franchise so far and I‘m sure I will in the future.
Same as me. But they wouldn't do a whole reboot, with a origin trilogy, to just drop it. They've built it from the gound up, so it only makes sense that they will keep on expanding it. We might see a slighly older Lara, who's more spunky and less serious. But it will still be Survivor Lara. Now that he has dealt and accepted her past, I expect the story to shift focus into the adventure, instead of her personal journey. The possibilities are now endless to wherever they want to take her - the only thing I request is that they make it in a way that makes sense for her as a character - making a personality transplant isn't the way for me. Bringing up her side of the comics, and have a nice balance between serious and fun - which again, was already started with SOTTR. I don't want them to turn her into a montoone and character with no depth like classic Lara was in the games. Neither I want them to overdo her being sarcastic and so on. I simply want a nice balance and something that makes sense
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