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Old 31-03-20, 15:03   #29541
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In SOTTR, Lara tells Jonah that Richard's research in Mexico stopped suddently, and the next volume picks up on Siberia. From this we can assume his research stops suddenly because that's when he was killed and if there was a rest of it, it was taken away by his assassin.

Volumes/Chapters aren't necessarily written in chronological order, so the next volume picking up on Siberia could easily another of his research running alongside
Yeah they found a way to make this work, but its simply a incredible fumbled way.

Thats the thing, this all works well enough...the whole story fits and moves, all the puzzle pieces are there to tell a consistent tale.
But its so clunky and makeshift that you can see the fingerprints of many people interfering with the writing so extremely.

This could all have been far more effective and simpler.
But it is what it is, the thing works and in the end, most people will mostly remember parts and pieces, not the whole 100%.
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Old 31-03-20, 15:26   #29542
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Correction: she says his next volume picks up in Syria, not Siberia.

This happens when Jonah asks her if he had any notes about Peru, to which she replies no. That "his research stops in Mexico like he had lost interest or.." "I don't know, the next volume picks up in Syria"

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Yeah they found a way to make this work, but its simply a incredible fumbled way.

Thats the thing, this all works well enough...the whole story fits and moves, all the puzzle pieces are there to tell a consistent tale.
But its so clunky and makeshift that you can see the fingerprints of many people interfering with the writing so extremely.

This could all have been far more effective and simpler.
But it is what it is, the thing works and in the end, most people will mostly remember parts and pieces, not the whole 100%.
I diagree that it's clunky. I think it's written in a way that makes sense.
Would I like all three myths to be more directly connected? Sure, but them being separate, and the only thing in common being Trinity trying to get them doesn't take away from my enjoyment neither it makes the story clunky for me personally.

Same with the Cataclysms.
At the beginning of SOTTR she states there are four:

1) A tsunami - which happens soon after she takes the dagger

2) A storm - which happens exactly when she's in the plane. She then reaches Kuwaq that it's destroyed by the effects of that storm

3) An eathquake - the first forshock is felt in Paititi, with multiple subequent ones during her short time in it, such as one in Cenote (also, she was only in Paititi for a matter of a couple of hours max.). Then the foreshocks continue to happen multiple times on the subequent portions.

4) The volcanic eruption, which also starts when she's at the cane field with all the ashes falling down, and you can see it in the distance as well.

As for the "the cataclysms only seem to be local to where she's at" we don't know the global scale, as she isn't watching TV. She's running against the time with a tunnel vision to try to stop it. Each place she goes (and bearing in mind different countries), there are signs of the cataclysms happening, and only Paititi isn't greatly affected - but you still see signs of it. Even in San Juan they're rebuilding the city after the damage caused by the earthquake.
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Old 31-03-20, 15:31   #29543
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Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post
In SOTTR, Lara tells Jonah that Richard's research in Mexico stopped suddently, and the next volume picks up on Siberia. From this we can assume his research stops suddenly because that's when he was killed and if there was a rest of it, it was taken away by his assassin.

Volumes/Chapters aren't necessarily written in chronological order, so the next volume picking up on Siberia could easily another of his research running alongside
I understand what youíre saying, I just wished there was more of a transition between his research. Itís made out in Rise that searching for Kitzeh and the Divine Source which is what drove him mad. Anna was used as a spy to infiltrate his research and report back to Trinity (Dominguez), when he was getting to close to the Divine Source they had him killed. Thatís what we get from Rise.

Now Iím Shadow, Richard mentioned in one of his volumes about a hidden city called Paititi but yet his research stopped in Mexico. So did he figure out the constellation puzzle? An the pink fish riddle? It just doesnít make any sense.

Like I said, if there was a fluid transition for Richard to be in both places, with Trinity then fair enough but if feels like they just stuck Richards story into Shadow to keep the family backstory there.
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Old 31-03-20, 15:53   #29544
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I understand what youíre saying, I just wished there was more of a transition between his research. Itís made out in Rise that searching for Kitzeh and the Divine Source which is what drove him mad. Anna was used as a spy to infiltrate his research and report back to Trinity (Dominguez), when he was getting to close to the Divine Source they had him killed. Thatís what we get from Rise.
Until the end of the game, that's what LARA believed as well. That he was mad, and got himself killed because of it.
Trinity as an entity is after many objects of power - and since Richard had a big research about the Divine Source, they've sent one of their agents (Ana) to snoop around the stuff he had found out. He was indirectly working for them. His research on Paititi was everything they were trying to avoid - he got too close, so he was taken down. That conversation on the phone right before he was killed could actually be about Paititi, and not the DS. But yea, after writing this, I can see it should be way more clear hehe

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Now Iím Shadow, Richard mentioned in one of his volumes about a hidden city called Paititi but yet his research stopped in Mexico. So did he figure out the constellation puzzle? An the pink fish riddle? It just doesnít make any sense.
He didn't mention Patiti in his research. Lara actually points that out when she said his research suddently stops in Mexico. . In that conversation, Lara implies that he had nothing in regards to Peru, and the golden city in it - that every archaeologist in the world was interested and looking for it - so, if he had any further research, or mention of Paititi, it was taken and destroyed by them then, or he never got to the point of mentioning it

The pink fish, and the constellation wasn't his research or his finding. That's what LARA found and decyphered, after reading his notes about something in Mexico, as well as the fact that she was aware that Trinity had an active cell in it, when most of their other cells were either shut down or destroyed.

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Like I said, if there was a fluid transition for Richard to be in both places, with Trinity then fair enough but if feels like they just stuck Richards story into Shadow to keep the family backstory there.
Richard had to be in SOTTR, as his story wasn't finished. She only learned that he was assassinated - that he hadn't killed himself. That it was Trinity, so she decided to go after them and take their operations/cells down (though, in the game she shows she's in denial about it being about personal revenge, as Jonah asks her if it is).

The one in Cozumel was the one that was still active, which Jonah suggested Lara they'd go after. Everything else that followed, was a result of her going there. She wasn't going there to find about Patiti, etc. She was still in her mission of stopping Trinity. That's why at the start of the game she wonders about what they were looking for in the hidden city (she learned about the hidden city from that pink fish riddle)
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Old 31-03-20, 16:05   #29545
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While I can agree with many points made - about story working in the end - the problem remains that it is up to us to connect it by our interpretation of events, such as finding where Ana/Amelia fit in the picture or how Trinity presence can be rationally explained in Japan and Russia when it is led by a guy whose sole agenda is to preserve undiscovered civilisation in Peru.

The same problem was present with Underworld. They were so into Norse mythology at the time (as was EM with Paitit) that they had to find a way to connect that to Avalon/Legend's story (or in this case with Rise's story). Result: Maya and Thailand civilisations worshiped Thor (or in this case Trinity investing digs in Japan and Russia to preserve Paititi). Yeah, riiiiiight, it work alright but also produces garbage of a story.

And yes, we can find bits and pieces that can ease are mind with regards to this - such as thinking that memories of Amelia are imagination so that Ana can fit in the timeline or that Trinity destroyed Richard's research on Paititi after it had him killed because he was about to go public, but it does not do the trick for me sadly.
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Old 31-03-20, 16:48   #29546
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While I can agree with many points made - about story working in the end - the problem remains that it is up to us to connect it by our interpretation of events, such as finding where Ana/Amelia fit in the picture
That's not up for interpretation. Amelia's death was the cause of his obsession with artifacts to imortality. He was doing everything he could to resurect her. His obsession with finding such artifacts is what had led him to his eventual assassination.
Ana entered the picture sent by Trinity to spy on him and his work and report back to them.

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or how Trinity presence can be rationally explained in Japan and Russia when it is led by a guy whose sole agenda is to preserve undiscovered civilisation in Peru.
This also explained in the game. The very first thing that pops up once Lara gets out of that cave hole she's stuck it. A pop up appears with a photo of Trinity's badge. Trinity as an ENITITY is looking for artifacts of great power for centuries. Amaru's PERSONAL goal was to protect Paititi, and he used Trinity's resources to do so.


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(or in this case Trinity investing digs in Japan and Russia to preserve Paititi). Yeah, riiiiiight, it work alright but also produces garbage of a story.
Trinity wasn't snooping in Japan or Russia to protect Paititi. As said above, they were looking for objects of great power, to grant them power - not necessarily connected to Paititi - it was never implied that way either - the photo I've talked about mentions Trinity being centuries old - Amaru is obviously not centuries old.

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And yes, we can find bits and pieces that can ease are mind with regards to this - such as thinking that memories of Amelia are imagination so that Ana can fit in the timeline or that Trinity destroyed Richard's research on Paititi after it had him killed because he was about to go public, but it does not do the trick for me sadly.
Amelia's cutscenes is what I personally consider plotholes, as I've pointed it out earlier. But that plot hole is something I don't mind because I loved seeing Amelia, plus is something really minor
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Old 31-03-20, 22:54   #29547
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Edit: Oops ignore this post
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Old 01-04-20, 20:38   #29548
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What I really disliked is how in ROTTR Lara says her last conversation with her father was a fight, then she found him ded. Yet in shadow this doesn't happen at all.

Unless you consider:

"Lara are you doing your Math homework?"
"In a minute, dad!"
*--- doesn't obey in the slightest---*

as the most terrific and heated altercation between father and daughter.
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Old 01-04-20, 21:24   #29549
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What I really disliked is how in ROTTR Lara says her last conversation with her father was a fight, then she found him ded. Yet in shadow this doesn't happen at all.

Unless you consider:

"Lara are you doing your Math homework?"
"In a minute, dad!"
*--- doesn't obey in the slightest---*

as the most terrific and heated altercation between father and daughter.
In Rise, she argued with him about how he was not caring about her anymore and that she wanted him ďto be her dad againĒ. Shadow retcons this, along with the whole manor and young Lara model.
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Old 01-04-20, 21:37   #29550
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Ret-conning shouldn't be present in such a overall small story. Just shows they had no plan...
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