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Old 30-07-21, 11:30   #30471
AshesBorn
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Originally Posted by killchan View Post
say...

the Trial of the spider... was it hard for you guys the first time?

Oh my god, not the comments, though. People seem to struggle with pressing a button these days and blame the game. No wonder CD think their audience consists of morons...
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Old 31-07-21, 05:52   #30472
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Oh my god, not the comments, though. People seem to struggle with pressing a button these days and blame the game. No wonder CD think their audience consists of morons...
People are sooooo dumb Oh My God. If they're struggling with this bit, are they even tomb raiders?!

This makes me think it was actually the spider trial where Lara needs to go full spiderman to attach, rappel like spider, swing and jump. Ughhh...
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Old 01-08-21, 16:48   #30473
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Well that is what hand holding games are doing to people.
I watched some youtube gamer girl playing the most recent God of War ( not the whole playthrough) which is more hand holding than older games. Now she is playing God of War 3 and in her first video she had some moments where she was clueless what to do ( where to jump or climb) and the answer was so obvious.
I had those moments where you scream at your screen forgetting the person inside it cannot hear you.
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Old 04-08-21, 07:22   #30474
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some zoomers happen to be selfaware.

3:35:55 - 3:37:30
https://youtu.be/5en5mdgFTcU?t=12955

... although it needs to be said that she's in the very rare position of having an audience of gaming boomers telling her which games to play.
The average gamer doesn't have that.
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Old 07-08-21, 05:13   #30475
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Lara's character being called a stylized brick, is quite right move.
While this channel generally is just for fun, this time this is no fun; SoTR has way too many problems.

Also, I'm glad that people finally see the problems of the latest era, hopefully CD will learn.

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Old 07-08-21, 10:09   #30476
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I just finished Shadow last night on the Xbox One X. I have about 83% completion & I'm missing a couple of optional tombs.

Where do I even start?

Straight off the bat this is in no way a return to "classic" style Tomb Raiders, at all. Lara's actual gameplay "skillset" (an oxymoron in & of itself) is the anthesis of the Core Design ps1 era games: Shadow Lara is floaty, imprecise & has zero consistency in her abilities. She can jump across a ravine when the game wants her to, but also fail to leap a couple of meters if it's not part of the on rails linear path. Meanwhile in the 1990's Tomb Raiders, players would navigate the environment based on what Lara could or couldn't do (how far she could jump, climb, how fast she could run etc.). So there's zero similarities there. Turning off survival instincts merely sends the player on a "run around the game area waiting for the X prompt to appear on screen" sort of experience instead of hitting the magic yellow vision button all the time (& on the "at one with the jungle" hard difficulty, survival instincts are still unlockable in the skill tree...). This game was designed around survival instincts, no doubt about it.

And here's one of its main issues: this is a "linear on rails" game where the player is expected to play fast & constantly move forward. Textures where she can stick to with her pickaxe are obvious, ledges are auto sticky & are nothing more than monkey hopping exercises like a Prince of Persia game (a problem inherent to all Crystal Tomb Raiders). The "challenge" with the white paint turned off is merely guessing where those ledges are. Puzzles are environmental & abuse the use of rope arrows again, again & again. There are also no keys to collect to unlock doors/gates (a staple of old Tomb Raiders). Levels are corridors attached to a large hub city in the middle (i.e. where the game pretends it's Horizon Zero Dawn... without an actual open world to do the quests/side quests in, just corridors & rooms right next door to the town areas).

I won't even touch on the story because this post would explode in length (needless to say, the pacing is horrible & the devs still don't even know "who" or "what" they want Lara Croft to be, i.e. she pouts, she cries, she has tantrums, she murders people with a knife, she hugs natives & then robs them (because the game is a collectathon where xp is required to build 3 combat skill trees... even though there's hardly any combat at all). And contrary to some "myths" about original Tomb Raiders, they were actually loaded with action after the first (Tomb Raiders 2 is very action heavy). So merely removing enemies (i.e. even hostile animals are few & far between) doesn't make it like the old Tomb Raiders either.

As a fan of the Core originals, I didn't like the Crystal Dynamics Legend, Anniversary, Underworld games (poor level design with bad platforming & floaty controls which has remained consistent in this trilogy as well). But I played & somewhat enjoyed to a certain degree the 2013 reboot & Rise for what they were: fast paced action adventure games with an xp system which usually worked & lots of loot. The narrative was awful in those games but they actually did "work" in their own genre, i.e. for example in the 2013 reboot, challenge Tombs gave important weapon upgrades as rewards (both 2013 & Rise are 6/10 titles in my opinion). I didn't need to pretend they were old style Tomb Raiders to have some fun, I just played them as they were & didn't overthink it.

But Shadow of the Tomb Raider is not just a horrible Tomb Raider, it's a flat out bad game with sloppy mechanics, boring missions & level design which is tedious to navigate (hello Paititi... i.e. a town loaded with horrible stereotyped "native" NPC's which appears larger than the explorable game world!), i.e. it's a disjointed mess of a game which pretends to be a Tomb Raider title. To "enjoy" this title, someone would have to seriously overlook its real flaws.

So this franchise needs another reboot & rethink.
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Old 07-08-21, 13:27   #30477
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The "challenge" with the white paint turned off is merely guessing where those ledges are.
I get what you're saying but a level with white paint vs the same level without the paing makes for a more immersive world.

If you take the challenge factor out of the equation, the removal of the white paint is a welcome change. It's like going to the cinema without that insufferable friend that spoils every scene 2 seconds before it happens.

Now for the next game, they need to drop this unhealthy obsession with this idea that climbing is the defining aspect and the entire point of of TR... which is factually false. Crystal Dynamic made it predominant, not Core Design. Yes you'll very oftern climb stuff on PS1 TRs but that was just a tool.
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Old 07-08-21, 14:30   #30478
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I get what you're saying but a level with white paint vs the same level without the paing makes for a more immersive world.

If you take the challenge factor out of the equation, the removal of the white paint is a welcome change. It's like going to the cinema without that insufferable friend that spoils every scene 2 seconds before it happens.

Now for the next game, they need to drop this unhealthy obsession with this idea that climbing is the defining aspect and the entire point of of TR... which is factually false. Crystal Dynamic made it predominant, not Core Design. Yes you'll very oftern climb stuff on PS1 TRs but that was just a tool.
I think the first step to rebooting this franchise would be the study of her physics & creation of a weighty precise set of moves which makes the character feel grounded & predictable in the game world. Other games manage this (Metal Gear Solid 5 for example still has its MG1 roots, even though massively improved).

That old Tomb Raider feeling of looking at a platform & thinking "can she make this jump?" & not even knowing what's over there. That's what's needed. That & of course a reason to explore the locations (in terms of finding items required for progression & also supplies which do make a difference). Shadow has none of that.

Ironically the most "Tomb Raider" style exploration experience I've had in the past decade has been in the Dark Souls/Bloodborne games, i.e. as a player you know what you character can do in terms of his physics but you don't know what's around a corner.

Shadow is the complete opposite (i.e. unpredictable floaty physics whilst the game world has everything already mapped & it's linear as hell). In the end it's just an XP lootathon where everything is displayed on the map, meanwhile the narrative which is supposed to give meaning to everything is totally broken (it really is, i.e. nothing makes sense).
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Old 07-08-21, 18:56   #30479
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Shadow is the complete opposite (i.e. unpredictable floaty physics whilst the game world has everything already mapped & it's linear as hell). In the end it's just an XP lootathon where everything is displayed on the map, meanwhile the narrative which is supposed to give meaning to everything is totally broken (it really is, i.e. nothing makes sense).
I see.

I have some questions for you zormannz (oh btw, welcome to TRF ) :

When you got to Paititi.... what did you do?
How did you approach the side content, and why did you chase it?
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Old 07-08-21, 20:41   #30480
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tomb raider isnt the type of series where they care about thoughtful input. we've seen it off and on over the years.

- tomb raider ii's traps and lack of story
- tomb raider iii's level design
- the existence of tomb raider chronicles
- mismanagement during tomb raider the angel of darkness' development
- the final product of tomb raider legend
- the issue of tomb raider anniversary edition vs tomb raider anniversary
- mismanagement during tomb raider underworld's development
- tomb raider ascension was literally canceled b/c "tomb raider is too large of a franchise to experiment with"
- rise of the tomb raider's xbox exclusivity
- mismanagement during shadow of the tomb raider's development

sure, they throw the fans a bone every once in a while but theyre going to go for what makes money first and foremost. bombastic setpieces and explosions, plus following current cinematographic trends sell, so that will be at the forefront of what they want to do. then they'll work on gameplay and do what works with the type of game they want to sell.

the only time any tr devs have ever sat down and had the foremost thought, "what sort of gameplay will deliver a quality gaming experience" was tomb raider i back in 1996

i feel like traod vs. the survivor trilogy would be a good case study in not evolving with gaming trends enough vs. evolving with gaming trends too much
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