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Old 01-04-20, 08:50   #1
TR-Freak
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Default About Room Export and Import

We currently consider implementing Room Import/Export to other 3D File formats.

The main question here is : how should the workflow be?
We would like to know the current workflow with meta2TR and of course try to improve this workflow.
How does Meta2TR handle moved or even removed rooms from the level?

My idea was to have selective export/import. I.e. your rooms would have a checkmark whether it was imported. You would only edit this room geometry in your 3D App. The rooms would be stored in a specified directory and immediately updated ("immediately" as far as Windows lets us, you probably would need to refresh them in TE manually)
You could still edit the Room Collision add static meshes and place triggers.

Another idea of mine would be to just match the names.
If a file in a certain directory with a Roomname is found, it is automatically imported. In your 3D App, you could just insert the rooms you want to edit and save them to separate files.

We would appreciate your thoughts and comments and proposals.
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Old 02-04-20, 16:41   #2
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Matching the names sounds cumbersome, I'd rather import/export selectively using checkboxes.
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Old 02-04-20, 16:46   #3
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I also prefer selective import/export with checklist.
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Old 02-04-20, 16:51   #4
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I have never worked with meta2TR since I got into level building only because of Tomb Editor, but I spent quite a bit of time experimenting with imported geometry in general and the early import & export room function that was included in TE 1.1.1
I work with Blender not Meta, so I can't speak for Meta users of course, but for Blender users following things would be helpful:


When exporting a room from TE 1.1.1 the location of the room on the 2D map determined also the position of the model in Blender. To illustrate:




I know this was intentional so the room could be re-imported to its correct position, but having a model far away from the center makes working in Blender difficult. It's not impossible but fairly cumbersome and larger areas/rooms would become unwieldy quickly.
To work around this problem I usually resort to dragging whichever room I want to export to the lower left corner and then export:




I do not have any specific suggestions how to best solve this issue, I just wanted to bring it to your attention that for Blender users there are problems tied to the way room coordinates were handled by the original export room function.


My ideal workflow, or what I hope to be able to do with TE, would be:

- export rooms in file formats other than MQO (OBJ/DAE/FBX all would be perfect)
- export a room & import into Blender with the room being in the center or next to the center like in the screen above
- re-import the room in file formats other than MQO (there is no plugin for Blender that can export MQO with vertex colors, so either FBX or DAE would be great)


Quote:
Originally Posted by TR-Freak View Post
My idea was to have selective export/import. I.e. your rooms would have a checkmark whether it was imported. You would only edit this room geometry in your 3D App. The rooms would be stored in a specified directory and immediately updated ("immediately" as far as Windows lets us, you probably would need to refresh them in TE manually)
You could still edit the Room Collision add static meshes and place triggers.
This sounds very good to me. Very convenient!

And a million thanks for all your fantastic work! Tomb Editor is such an amazing level editor and just pure joy to work with.

Last edited by not again!; 02-04-20 at 16:56.
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Old 02-04-20, 17:37   #5
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Meta2tr exports to one file, RoomAll.mqo, with rooms separated into objects. It uses the object names to match them to rooms on import. It only imports rooms that are marked as visible in the mqo file.

Easer to work with all rooms in one file imo as that allows you to view the whole map. Requiring rooms to be exported to multiple files sounds like a pain to manage.

The issue of rooms not being at the center is easily solved by using the 3D app's focus function, e.g. Numpad . in Blender.

I also suggest the devs try out meta2tr to learn how it works.
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Old 02-04-20, 18:12   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMN View Post
The issue of rooms not being at the center is easily solved by using the 3D app's focus function, e.g. Numpad . in Blender.
Ah, that's not the problem - what I meant was that a lot of Blender's modelling functions and modifiers like mirroring would be cumbersome to work with if you can't use the object centre as reference/pivot point. I was hoping to remodel the rooms completely, and not being able to use most of Blenders modeling features properly would be a major drawback.
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Old 02-04-20, 19:10   #7
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For the people who said that "matching by names" is cumbersome:

With "matching by names" i mean that the Filename "TeRoom32.obj" means that it replaces the geometry of Room 32 counted from the actual room index list, not the used rooms index. You don't have to have a filename "Split from Room 32 (digged above) (digged down)" .

@Caesum had the idea to have a global File that replaces the whole Level (or specifically the rooms in that file) and subsequent files replace specific rooms.
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Old 03-04-20, 09:16   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TR-Freak View Post
For the people who said that "matching by names" is cumbersome:

With "matching by names" i mean that the Filename "TeRoom32.obj" means that it replaces the geometry of Room 32 counted from the actual room index list, not the used rooms index. You don't have to have a filename "Split from Room 32 (digged above) (digged down)" .

@Caesum had the idea to have a global File that replaces the whole Level (or specifically the rooms in that file) and subsequent files replace specific rooms.
I like to have the liberty of naming the files I work on however I want; I don't see any disadvantage in choosing the file you want to import, as opposed to relying on naming conventions, no matter how straightforward they are.

Also, I haven't tried TE yet. Does the workflow still involve mqo files? I wish we could move away from those. Collada (so .dae) would be the best option, everybody's happy (including people who use Metasequoia - I'd assume it must have an option to import .dae files)
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Old 04-04-20, 15:15   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not again! View Post
Ah, that's not the problem - what I meant was that a lot of Blender's modelling functions and modifiers like mirroring would be cumbersome to work with if you can't use the object centre as reference/pivot point. I was hoping to remodel the rooms completely, and not being able to use most of Blenders modeling features properly would be a major drawback.
This should be a workaround for that (this is for Blender 2.79, I'm assuming it'll also work in 2.8):
  • Select the room, go into Edit mode, select all vertices
  • Press shift+s, click Cursor to Selected in the pop-up
  • Switch to Object mode
  • Create an Empty from the Create toolbar
  • Select the room, go to the Tools toolbar, click the Set Origin dropdown and select Origin to 3D Cursor
  • Now you can set the room's location to 0/0/0 to center it
  • Edit the room as you please
  • Once you're done, select the Empty you created earlier, move the cursor to it with the same shift+s method from earlier
  • Select the room, press shift+s again but now click Selection to Cursor to move the room back to the empty
  • With the room selected, go into the Object menu and click Apply -> Location
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Old 04-04-20, 17:28   #10
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^^ Thanks a million, Zebra! This sounds like a perfect workaround - short and simple enough to not increase the amount of work in any significant way.

Last edited by not again!; 04-04-20 at 17:30.
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