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Old 05-12-19, 03:11   #10331
Kapu
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We finally put up our Christmas tree today! Still have to finish decorating. BUT it made me remember to upload the Christmas version of my avatar which is pretty exciting for me
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Old 05-12-19, 23:55   #10332
not again!
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^^ Finally? In Austria we usually do this on the morning of the 24th

----

I've made a few comparison screenshots of Tomb Editor's Import Geometry function and thought I'd share.

The original room as built in Tomb Editor (ambient light 25/25/25, a blue-ish sunbulb pointing straight down to simulate a skylight, and a few flame emitters):



The same room as imported geometry exported from Blender with smooth shading:




and with flat shading (sharp edges):




The imported geometry looks quite amazing I'd say.
There's a bit of an issue where the light of the flame emitter goes through solid wall / a pillar, illuminating the wall on the far right, which does not happen with the original room, but I love how defined the architecture looks even in the smoothly shaded version.
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Old 06-12-19, 22:48   #10333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not again! View Post
^^ Finally? In Austria we usually do this on the morning of the 24th
I think most people in the US decorate the day after Thanksgiving (the last Thursday in November), but I just didn't feel like it this year I LOVE seeing the decorations, but I hate putting them up. I'm too picky, it becomes a whole thing.

Quote:
I've made a few comparison screenshots of Tomb Editor's Import Geometry function and thought I'd share.

The original room as built in Tomb Editor (ambient light 25/25/25, a blue-ish sunbulb pointing straight down to simulate a skylight, and a few flame emitters):

https://i.imgur.com/65GcBvg.png

The same room as imported geometry exported from Blender with smooth shading:

https://i.imgur.com/FCRcrQ1.png


and with flat shading (sharp edges):

https://i.imgur.com/GfejFDl.png


The imported geometry looks quite amazing I'd say.
There's a bit of an issue where the light of the flame emitter goes through solid wall / a pillar, illuminating the wall on the far right, which does not happen with the original room, but I love how defined the architecture looks even in the smoothly shaded version.
Both look awesome, but the flat shading is next level! I love the things that Tomb Editor is making possible.
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Old 08-12-19, 16:05   #10334
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Okay I have to rage again.
How can this level be so high rated: LB Advent Calendar 2019 - Echoes of the Past

Well first there are details that make it look unpolished, for example the broken camera in the standing animation, the wrongly pitched ROTTR sound effects (mixed with a LQ TR2 grunt), the lack of an ambiance track (yes there is a bit of music but that's all), some objects have wrong lighting, and the crystal are textured completely randomly. And I won't even spend time over the flybys, with those frustrating random pauses.
But these are details, that's not even what puts me off.

It's the gameplay.
First task: pull a random object across the room for about 30 seconds to open a door.
Second task: find a hidden a jump switch to open a door, which we can fortunately reach because there is a random batch of snow.
Later: monkey swing accross a room to reach another jump switch to open a bigger door.
Next: you find a trapdoor, open it, dive in: there's a flyby that shows another jumpswitch, but you can't grab it easily.
There are a few rocks on wall. Grab them, climb higher than where they are (because naturally Lara can climb on tapestry), and jump backwards to land on a chandelier. There's another chandelier to get to the jumpswitch, but no, surprise! You can't reach it. You have to put a harp behind a table. So pull it aaaaall around the pool (1-2 minutes to do JUST that), and put it behind that table, even if it makes no sense and no normal person would think of doing that. Especially that there is nothing on that tile to indicate it would do anything. And surprise: a random rope appears on the ceiling, allowing you to cross the gap!
Seriously, did the author even try playing the level and see if it was entertaining at all? It's like he/she was afraid that it would be a short level so she tried to make it last as long as possible.
Oh and surprise, you find a bow because you have explosive arrows, and explosive arrows can break metal gates.
Where's the logic?
And yet:



I mean, I'm raging over this one today, but this is actually a drop in the ocean. There are sooooo many levels that go just like this, they have their gameplay rated from 9 to 10, yet the only gameplay they provide is annoying long tasks, hidden things, randomness, etc... like they're trying to test the player's patience, or just trying to fill in, instead of using any creativity, making the player think, or anything to make it interesting and entertaining. Try, at least. Quality is better than quantity.

Don't get me wrong, the level looks rather nice, efforts were made on that side, but really, the gameplay is just a big no.

Last edited by Joey79100; 08-12-19 at 17:13.
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Old 08-12-19, 16:57   #10335
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The people who have rated this high in the gameplay department obviously have a different taste than you do.

Btw, the image is not showing up.
(And please use one of our approved image hosting sites. )
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Last edited by Titak; 08-12-19 at 16:59.
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Old 08-12-19, 17:23   #10336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey79100 View Post
Okay I have to rage again.
How can this level be so high rated: LB Advent Calendar 2019 - Echoes of the Past

Well first there are details that make it look unpolished, for example the broken camera in the standing animation, the wrongly pitched ROTTR sound effects (mixed with a LQ TR2 grunt), the lack of an ambiance track (yes there is a bit of music but that's all), some objects have wrong lighting, and the crystal are textured completely randomly. And I won't even spend time over the flybys, with those frustrating random pauses.
But these are details, that's not even what puts me off.

It's the gameplay.
First task: pull a random object across the room for about 30 seconds to open a door.
Second task: find a hidden a jump switch to open a door, which we can fortunately reach because there is a random batch of snow.
Later: monkey swing accross a room to reach another jump switch to open a bigger door.
Next: you find a trapdoor, open it, dive in: there's a flyby that shows another jumpswitch, but you can't grab it easily.
There are a few rocks on wall. Grab them, climb higher than where they are (because naturally Lara can climb on tapestry), and jump backwards to land on a chandelier. There's another chandelier to get to the jumpswitch, but no, surprise! You can't reach it. You have to put a harp behind a table. So pull it aaaaall around the pool (1-2 minutes to do JUST that), and put it behind that table, even if it makes no sense and no normal person would think of doing that. Especially that there is nothing on that tile to indicate it would do anything. And surprise: a random rope appears on the ceiling, allowing you to cross the gap!
Seriously, did the author even try playing the level and see if it was entertaining at all? It's like he/she was afraid that it would be a short level so she tried to make it last as long as possible.
Oh and surprise, you find a bow because you have explosive arrows, and explosive arrows can break metal gates.
Where's the logic?
And yet:



I mean, I'm raging over this one today, but this is actually a drop in the ocean. There are sooooo many levels that go just like this, they have their gameplay rated from 9 to 10, yet the only gameplay they provide is annoying long tasks, hidden things, randomness, etc... like they're trying to test the player's patience, or just trying to fill in, instead of using any creativity, making the player think, or anything to make it interesting and entertaining. Try, at least. Quality is better than quantity.

Don't get me wrong, the level looks rather nice, efforts were made on that side, but really, the gameplay is just a big no.
Don't forget about killing soldiers with a bow. That was a pain in the bum
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Old 08-12-19, 17:26   #10337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titak View Post
Btw, the image is not showing up.
(And please use one of our approved image hosting sites. )
Discord is an approved hosting service here. However I've reuploaded it since you couldn't see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titak View Post
The people who have rated this high in the gameplay department obviously have a different taste than you do.
And that brings another issue: reviews should not be driven by tastes. Reviews should be objective, because they're meant to give an idea of how good the game is to other people.
If we were to review by taste, then I'd give very low ratings to all Maria Doria levels for example, because I don't like the setting. But no, what should be reviewed is the game itself for what it is, like, is the gameplay entertaining, are the sceneries atmospheric, etc, you know the categories. Thing is, on trle.net, reviewers actually do review based on their own tastes, and that's what makes reviews flawed. People often say the review system is flawed, but I think it's mostly the reviewers, mainly for that precise reason. Because of this, you have games like matrix's Battle Arena rated very low, not because it's a bad shooter or something like that, but because the peopled who reviewed don't like shooters. And that's wrong: they should have reviewed it as a shooter, not a Tomb Raider game, or they shouldn't have reviewed at all.
So what I was trying to say is: no, long tedious tasks aren't good gameplay. Especially if they're repeated. Especially if you have absolutely no clue what to do (the harp thing is not even an extrapolation, it does not have any clue, not even the slightest, it's just a random place you have to put it on and it makes a rope appear - nor it makes any sense btw). Hiding switches in dark corners or places the player won't search for is also not good gameplay. Even the TRLE manual says it.
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Old 08-12-19, 17:39   #10338
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I agree. Some people tend to be too subjective when it comes to reviewing levels and rate everything based on their taste only. You can't eliminate the subjective of course, it's still about your impression with with the level, but it's not fair giving it lower/higher score based on personal preference. For example.. I don't like HD Lara in LQ level, but I'm going to suggest using LQ Lara for the sake of consistency rather than just saying it and giving lower score.. Or in case I don't like some sounds, I'm going to write if they are used and set properly. The same thing happens with animations that people tend to stick to the old clunky Lara because of that.. Well, it's personal choice of the builder, as long as anything they do has purpose, is executed properly with little to no error, I'm fine with it. I'm there to point out some technical mistakes, give constructive criticism, but in no way make the level look better/worse based on my personal preferences. I suggest that if someone doesn't like certain type of level, they should just skip it to avoid getting too subjective and showing to the world how much they do NOT like it without right reason...

Last edited by Raider99; 08-12-19 at 17:44.
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Old 08-12-19, 20:52   #10339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey79100 View Post
Reviews should be objective, because they're meant to give an idea of how good the game is to other people. [...] what should be reviewed is the game itself for what it is, like, is the gameplay entertaining, are the sceneries atmospheric, etc, you know the categories.

[...]

...no, long tedious tasks aren't good gameplay. Especially if they're repeated. Especially if you have absolutely no clue what to do [...] Hiding switches in dark corners or places the player won't search for is also not good gameplay. Even the TRLE manual says it.
I completely agree with you on both points, Joey. In respect to reviews: well, even though I wish people would be objective, I don't see it happening. No one on TRLE.net is a professional, after all. Thinking about it actually, you can't really trust any online reviews. Or rather, you have to determine whether or not they're legitimate. Take shopping on Amazon, for example. I always check out the reviews before I buy. Sometimes people have legitimate issues with the product, and others time they had something trivial mishap like a shipping delay, so they give an unfair 1 star rating when in fact the product is fine.

As long as reviews are being discussed, I'd just like to reiterate my dislike for the 1-10 scale. It's ineffective. 6 and below are bad marks in the eyes of almost everyone. Why have such a large scale if only 4 numbers truly matter? To quote myself from an SoTR thread -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapu View Post
My gripe is not with a 6/10 score, it's the 1-10 scale as a whole.

No one considers a 6 or less to be good. Really 7 and above are the only numbers that matter. What's the difference between a game that scores a 3 versus a 5? If a 5 is bad, then a 3 must be trash. Then what of the difference between a 1 and a 3? 1 is especially big trash?? Maybe some people will disagree with my stance. Let me give an example to prove my point:

A 1-5 scale (or even 1-4) is more practical. If I were to rate Shadow, I'd give it a 3/5. It's a decent game, but too safe. A little stale. Made some good improvement puzzle-wise, but dropped the ball on combat. Has some good story cinematics, but some pretty dumb ones too. 3/5 seems like a fair score, no?

Here's the problem: 3/5 = 6/10. Where 3/5 felt fair, 6/10 feels way too low. And that's my argument against the 1-10 scale.
It seems a lot of reviewers on TRLE.net are ok with (what I find to be tedious) switch-hunt/push block puzzle style gameplay and they give high marks. Honestly, I wonder if these people play any other types of games. I don't mean to talk badly about any specific builder (or reviewer), but I do find many TRLE games boring. But again, the majority of us are not professional game developers, after all. Making fun gameplay is a difficult task. Fortunately there are a handful of builders who just have that knack for making fun puzzles and platforming, though they are (quite predictably) few in numbers.

At the end of the day, while I would like to see more objective reviews and more interesting gameplay, I'm just thankful that the TRLE community is still kicking. Not only kicking, but actively growing and evolving thanks to new tools built by talented coders, and one day, new engines as well. I totally hear you when you bring up these points, don't get me wrong - but I guess I would rather see so-so games rather than no games at all. People are building, people are having fun, people are being creative. I'll always encourage people to create and not just consume. These types of discussions make me want to revive TRLEhub.com, because I had a 1-4 and "recommended/not recommended" review system in mind. Maybe one day.

Last edited by Kapu; 08-12-19 at 20:53.
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Old 13-12-19, 16:13   #10340
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This weekend (or so) I will be releasing some contents from Hostile Waters, such as earthquake and death animations.
If anyone wants me to release something in specific just let me know!
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