Tomb Raider II: The Ancient Jade Mask

[Danath]

DX9 in TR2 now?? 😲 Wowies, that's some major update!
Please keep me informed on your experience with that version, it may be worth it for me to upgrade to it. I'm using an older TR2Main version, which is the most stable until now ( 20200813 ).

[DaroRaider]

Originally Posted by Danath

Dangerously close to 7MB now which is insane. For reference, Barkhang is the biggest level size on original TR2 and it's only slightly above 4MB.

The bigger part in size is Texture Pages. Each texture page has a 16 bit version and a 8 bit version stored in the level itself.

The formula to get the exact number of bytes ( and MB ) per texture page is:

(256 x 256 x 2) + ( 256 x 256) = 196608 Bytes ---> 0.1875 MB

So if you want to know how many MB uses all texture pages amount you must multiply 0.1875 x NumberofPages.

Originally Posted by Topixtor

I don't know if it's totally unrelated or anything, but I am now using the latest (DirectX 9) testing build of the TR2main and IT SEEMS I got rid of the problem of too many object placed/activated (for reference: too many lava sparks in the last TR1 level by Feder caused mutants to explode in less and less pieces until no pieces at all, in TR2 too many sparks and "waterfall" effects resulted in them being badly rendered, I assume that's the problem with harpoons and rockets too). But I need further testing to be assured.

You are in testing labours. That's nice. For building level we must do trial and error every time we want to implement new things. That is a headache
Maybe you can contribute to discover how the "low-level" detailing engine works. That would help a lot to Arsunt and whoever want to do a future patch fixing/adding new funcionalities.

[Danath]

Originally Posted by DaroRaider

The formula to get the exact number of bytes ( and MB ) per texture page is:

(256 x 256 x 2) + ( 256 x 256) = 196608 Bytes ---> 0.1875 MB

So if you want to know how many MB uses all texture pages amount you must multiply 0.1875 x NumberofPages.

You know so much about these engines, wow. Thanks for the info.
My base level for level 8 is 5,42MB in size, that is equivalent to 29 pages, but Dxtre says there's 30 when compiling ( 19 in objects, 11 in rooms ).

Anyway, i'm going to continue doing the lighting which is a lot faster than texturing, then i will decide if to cut more things or not.

[thewolf]

Originally Posted by Topixtor

I don't know if it's totally unrelated or anything, but I am now using the latest (DirectX 9) testing build of the TR2main and IT SEEMS I got rid of the problem of too many object placed/activated

The object limit is not always the same. My last level had 173 objects and already crashed of too many objects. Removing for example a baddie like the snowmobiler gave me more space to place up to 4 objects like ammo or meds, even some more small enemies like the eagle, tiger or catfish.
For me it seems that the game has different sizes for each type of object. My last level didn't had that much triggers placed but somehow I couldn't place more baddies.

Now my current level has 251 objects but it's already at it's limit. The level is also larger (2000kb more than previous) and has more rooms. I can't tell why I was able to place now 78 objects more ?

I think it depends on the type/kind of objects how many you can place but I might be wrong.
I feel like human baddies take more storage than an animal like baddy

Since we all use Dxtre3d it might also be related to the editor and not the engine!
The editor gives you already a Lara object at the start which also counts as 1.
If you keep placing objects the editor skips the counter for your objects.
Dxtre3d tells me I have 271 objects..... that's because the editor skips the counting at some points.

I placed 153 objects and then I wanted to place number 154. Now the editor counts instead of 154 right to 155. The editor keeps repeating this at certain intervals.
If you delete now object 155 and place a new one the editor keeps counting to 156 objects......... if you delete another 10 object and place 10 new you will already have 166 objects shown or even more if he keeps skipping :/

So in the end you might be possible to place around 250 objects but it can also be less than 200.

[Danath]

Originally Posted by thewolf

The object limit is not always the same. My last level had 173 objects and already crashed of too many objects. Removing for example a baddie like the snowmobiler gave me more space to place up to 4 objects like ammo or meds, even some more small enemies like the eagle, tiger or catfish.
For me it seems that the game has different sizes for each type of object. My last level didn't had that much triggers placed but somehow I couldn't place more baddies.

That's interesting, but not the case for me.

My Siberia map has almost 240 objects, and there are a lot of human enemies in it. Same with Underwater Base, 230+ objects and lots of humans placed. Then there's this 8th map, also humanoid enemies and even the guardian statues, which must take a TON of data space, 240+ objects in the map.
This is not to say you are wrong, just that i haven't encountered the same problem as you.

Originally Posted by thewolf

If you keep placing objects the editor skips the counter for your objects.
Dxtre3d tells me I have 271 objects..... that's because the editor skips the counting at some points.

Yes, that's stated in the manual somewhere, but it's an internal count of the editor. Doesn't mean anything, at compiling the real # of objects is used.

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25% of the lighting done already by the way!

[thewolf]

It's hard to tell what really the cause is. Maybe it's my fault because I tend to build huge open areas but who knows

I can only tell what I experienced

[Topixtor]

Every single one of my levels where I encountered the object limit was at 255 (56 counting the starting Lara) with tons of human enemies. However, the Snowmobile guy probably automatically counts as at least 2 objects since it, in fact, is a combination of 2 objects... who knows

[DaroRaider]

Originally Posted by thewolf

I placed 153 objects and then I wanted to place number 154. Now the editor counts instead of 154 right to 155. The editor keeps repeating this at certain intervals.
If you delete now object 155 and place a new one the editor keeps counting to 156 objects......... if you delete another 10 object and place 10 new you will already have 166 objects shown or even more if he keeps skipping :/

That has a logical explanation. The editor has to preserve an internal index so that the triggers list correctly points to the items. I'm gonna put an example..

If you have 8 items and you delete one, it is 7. Then you add one again, it's 8 again. It's simple math. But if you do this way, the editor must shift all the items in the item list to have the correct #number and for the triggers is hard to update the item pointers.
So the editor logic is, you have 8 items, you delete one, it's still 8 items, but the item slot is emptied, then you add a new item and it is counted as 9 with a new entry, this way you preserve trigger pointers to items.



Yes I know, I'm pretty much a nerd 8)

[Danath]

Originally Posted by DaroRaider

Yes I know, I'm pretty much a nerd 8)

I know you probably meant that as a joke, but i wish people would stop calling others derogatory names like that just for liking something they don't.
It's an interesting explanation, thanks for sharing it.

Lighting on level 8 about 50% done right now.

[thewolf]

Originally Posted by DaroRaider

Yes I know, I'm pretty much a nerd 8)

Don't worry I wish I could do the same stuff as you with coding but sadly I have zero clue on how this works

I had a small crash course(is it called that?)for binary codes when I was in school. This was several years ago and I was able to understand it a bit. Now years later I forgot everything as I never had to use it

If I had been more into programming I could've known more about the editors and engines today but well you can't have everything right?
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Also glad to see that you are making progress Danath Keep it up