Tomb Raider Forums  

Go Back   Tomb Raider Forums > Tomb Raider Series > Tomb Raider (Crystal Dynamics' version)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 26-11-08, 23:06   #1
silver_wolf
Member
 
silver_wolf's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,050
Default Attention CD: NEW ENGINE!!

Hi CD, I don't know if you remember this, but a while before TRU came out you mentioned something called a "completely new engine". What happened? Don't get me wrong, I loved TRU...for what it was. And by that I mean I loved it because I think it's the best TR game possible with the Legend engine. But, guys, seriously. You need to step it up. Make a new engine. The old "ledge-hopping" isn't going to fly for very long, even if it is interspersed with "free-climbing" and such. Again, you did a very good job on TRU with what you had, but now you need something different. Some areas you should focus on with a new engine:
1. Platforming
The ledge-hopping is a past-gen mechanic. TRA managed to get away with it, but it really shouldn't have been in TRU. Should you make a new engine (and you should), replace the ledge-hopping with true free-climbing (if you can; I don't know the whole legality of that stuff). Not only would it make platforming a lot more fun, it would offer much more interesting and better level design. For example, you could have Lara outside a huge ancient temple. The only way in is through an opening in the roof. With free-climbing, players could use the natural architecture and decay of the temple to navigate it. But there should also be lots of little side openings in the temple to explore. Also, implement nature in moving around. Someone here came up with a cool drawing for a tree in a level and detailed how it could be climbed,i.e, branches replacing the convenient swing-pole. And if you're worried about people getting stuck, here's a simple solution: besides the optional hints and player tailoring (which were great), players could press a button that would direct their attention towards the correct path, by a simple turn of Lara's head and focus of the camera.
2. Combat
Really, now. After the first two games getting docked for bad combat, why did it show up in TRU? Granted, it worked ok with the non-human enemies, but combat sucked against humans. Completely re-work it. Either use the same mechanics as Uncharted and Gears of War, or make something original. But don't amke it full of human enemies again, at least have it evenly balanced, if not then make them mostly non-human. Also, spend more time on melee attacks. Really develop it into a full hand-to-hand combat system with combos and stuff, so we can get Lara into some cool fisticuffs. And when it comes to bosses, it'd be nice to have one or two. Just don't restrict us in an arena. The end part of TRU was great, just let us do some fighting with all that climbing.
3. Level Design/Atmosphere
You did great with this in TRU, now expand on it. Make the levels bigger and even more open, with more paths to choose from. Don't be afraid to make the player afraid; let loose with the puzzles and traps. Make puzzles not only huge, but complex and clever. Make traps really devious; blend them into the environment so the player is forced to make a split-second decision that could mean life or death. And bring back some of the old traps as well as the new ones. Collapsing floors, rolling boulders, spike walls and ceilings. Also, make adrenaline moments optional. Let us turn them off to get the full effect.
silver_wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-08, 23:20   #2
Tomb_of_Darkns
Member
 
Tomb_of_Darkns's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,509
Default

AGREED!! 1000000000% thats what we (well mostly all of us here at TRF) want...or need. lol but i agree we need a new engine.
i think quasi said something about using real-time physics for EVERYTHING. she said that if we throw a grenade at a building, the buildings walls should blow up along with it. that is what i love, also it can give us more paths to choose from.
anyways great post
Tomb_of_Darkns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-08, 23:20   #3
jumoeder
Member
 
jumoeder's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 633
Default

i think free-climbing doen't really work for tomb raider. for example look at assasins creed. it is just to easy to get somewhere(or they have to use it in another way)
jumoeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-08, 23:21   #4
krycekuva
Member
 
krycekuva's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,756
Default

i agree with some of what i read,.. except for the ledges one... people should realize that ledges DO exist... and they exist even if we (most of you but not me) dont like them. crystals shouldnt take the ledges out of the game just because to some players it just doesnt feel right. on the contrary, if it doesnt feel right in order to keep everyone happy they should implement other movements instead. if lara manage to get a higher ammount of moves, ledge jumping wouldnt be so frecuent, and the platforming would feel much more varied...

but please crystal... dont take any more moves out. keep working on new ones instead.
krycekuva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-08, 23:32   #5
Xian Priestess
Member
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 310
Default

What a fantastic post. May I sign your petition to CD, Silver Wolf? I agree with everything you've said, and I've been 'raiding' since 1996. I especially like the free-climbing possibilities you mention - that would be great. The first thing we all do when we load up a new TR game is look up and around for somewhere to climb. Usually an obvious ledge sticks out. It would be great if we had to explore every little chink or crag to see if she could use it. I can imagine that this alone would add a couple of hours to a game.

As for combat, I think that the old classic had just the right blend of adventure/fighting. And I never thought I'd actually miss combat, but in TRU I did. Getting past the baddies - whether human or animal/mythical - was an essential part of the game for me. I don't want enemies around every corner and after every trap, but I do want some - and I want them to leap out at me unexpectedly to scare the heck out of me. (Anyone remember that Dino Crisis game? There was a fantastic moment in that when the T Rex broke through the window) Lara should have lots of combos to defeat different types of enemies - I'm sure it couldn't be hard to do if the engine is changed.

And although I never thought I'd say it, I actually enjoyed the big four bosses in TRA. I don't simply want a shoot-em-up type of boss; rather, a strategy to defeat them (like the Centaurs in TRA) or Natla at the end of TRU. That way, we are using our brains as well as our fingers.

As for puzzles - Love taking ages to figure these out. I agree with Silver Wolf again here - make them even more complex. Make us scratch our heads for ages. OK, so we fit four things into four slots - but then add another dimension - perhaps a cryptic message that she has to decipher or something.

Not being very technically minded, I wonder if the player tailoring could make puzzles actually harder or easier? Not sure if this is possible, but it would be an added bonus for me.
Xian Priestess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-08, 23:40   #6
silver_wolf
Member
 
silver_wolf's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,050
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by krycekuva View Post
i agree with some of what i read,.. except for the ledges one... people should realize that ledges DO exist... and they exist even if we (most of you but not me) dont like them. crystals shouldnt take the ledges out of the game just because to some players it just doesnt feel right. on the contrary, if it doesnt feel right in order to keep everyone happy they should implement other movements instead. if lara manage to get a higher ammount of moves, ledge jumping wouldnt be so frecuent, and the platforming would feel much more varied...

but please crystal... dont take any more moves out. keep working on new ones instead.
yeah, you're probably right about the ledges. But CD should find a way to use them so that the levels don't feel so restricted, and again, implement them so they don't look out of place.
silver_wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-08, 23:41   #7
NateBrooks
Member
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver_wolf View Post
Hi CD, I don't know if you remember this, but a while before TRU came out you mentioned something called a "completely new engine". What happened? Don't get me wrong, I loved TRU...for what it was. And by that I mean I loved it because I think it's the best TR game possible with the Legend engine. But, guys, seriously. You need to step it up. Make a new engine. The old "ledge-hopping" isn't going to fly for very long, even if it is interspersed with "free-climbing" and such. Again, you did a very good job on TRU with what you had, but now you need something different. Some areas you should focus on with a new engine:
1. Platforming
The ledge-hopping is a past-gen mechanic. TRA managed to get away with it, but it really shouldn't have been in TRU. Should you make a new engine (and you should), replace the ledge-hopping with true free-climbing (if you can; I don't know the whole legality of that stuff). Not only would it make platforming a lot more fun, it would offer much more interesting and better level design. For example, you could have Lara outside a huge ancient temple. The only way in is through an opening in the roof. With free-climbing, players could use the natural architecture and decay of the temple to navigate it. But there should also be lots of little side openings in the temple to explore. Also, implement nature in moving around. Someone here came up with a cool drawing for a tree in a level and detailed how it could be climbed,i.e, branches replacing the convenient swing-pole. And if you're worried about people getting stuck, here's a simple solution: besides the optional hints and player tailoring (which were great), players could press a button that would direct their attention towards the correct path, by a simple turn of Lara's head and focus of the camera.
2. Combat
Really, now. After the first two games getting docked for bad combat, why did it show up in TRU? Granted, it worked ok with the non-human enemies, but combat sucked against humans. Completely re-work it. Either use the same mechanics as Uncharted and Gears of War, or make something original. But don't amke it full of human enemies again, at least have it evenly balanced, if not then make them mostly non-human. Also, spend more time on melee attacks. Really develop it into a full hand-to-hand combat system with combos and stuff, so we can get Lara into some cool fisticuffs. And when it comes to bosses, it'd be nice to have one or two. Just don't restrict us in an arena. The end part of TRU was great, just let us do some fighting with all that climbing.
3. Level Design/Atmosphere
You did great with this in TRU, now expand on it. Make the levels bigger and even more open, with more paths to choose from. Don't be afraid to make the player afraid; let loose with the puzzles and traps. Make puzzles not only huge, but complex and clever. Make traps really devious; blend them into the environment so the player is forced to make a split-second decision that could mean life or death. And bring back some of the old traps as well as the new ones. Collapsing floors, rolling boulders, spike walls and ceilings. Also, make adrenaline moments optional. Let us turn them off to get the full effect.

Underworld was made on a completely new engine.
I provided a link below.

http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/to...eview-745.html
NateBrooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-08, 23:43   #8
silver_wolf
Member
 
silver_wolf's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,050
Default

bull crap. Maybe when it comes to graphics and level size, but that's about it.
silver_wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-08, 23:43   #9
tranniversary119
Member
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 9,386
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NateBrooks View Post
Underworld was made on a completely new engine.
I provided a link below.

http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/to...eview-745.html
Nope..it's an updated Anniversary/Legend engine..
tranniversary119 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-08, 23:44   #10
Ybbob
Member
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 149
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NateBrooks View Post
Underworld was made on a completely new engine.
I provided a link below.

http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/to...eview-745.html
No, it wasn't, they kept saying it was until I believe Erik let it slip that it was just an updated Legend engine, which you can completely tell from the way it plays.
Ybbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Tomb Raider Forums is not owned or operated by CDE Entertainment Ltd.
Lara Croft and Tomb Raider are trademarks of CDE Entertainment Ltd.