So where would the other Stone Dias/sword frags sites have been found?

[dinahcat]

I have been thinking about this quite a bit since someone mentioned a wishful Avalon level in TR8. I apologize, but my thoughts are a bit disjointed right now. I hope this makes sense, or at least serves as a catalyst for some of you to jump in and help me “fill in the gaps”.)

The first Stone Dais we are introduced to is in Nepal when Lara and her mother were there. The sword was already there and all in one piece (or it was a replica with at least one real piece – more on this theory later…) There is no back story as to why this dais is here, or to as why the sword is even there. If it has something to do with the temple, that makes sense, as Lara’s mother had the Ghilali key on her person when the plane went down.

Slight side thought, where were Lara and her mother going? Were they going to that temple anyway? Why would her mother have that key if she was not looking for the sword fragment? Maybe they were actually going to meet her father who was going to search for that sword fragment…

Anyway, before I continue, the fact that The Ghilali key was in Lady Croft’s possession at this time and place, coupled with Lara’s find of the ceremonial sword in Queen Tiwanaku’s tomb made me wonder. There were 5 sword fragments. The sword fragments were meant to be separated and reforged. We know that there was a fragment found in Queen Tiwanaku’s tomb along with a ceremonial replica, so was one fragment placed on the replica enough of a power source to open “Avalon”? Does this mean that there were 5 replica swords containing the 5 sword fragments, including “Excalibur”? If so, what was the purpose of the full sword? I just cannot fathom how one sword containing all the pieces could surface in Peru, and then appear again all over the world four different times. If anything, the full sword may have started in one place, and then a piece may have moved to England (etc.) and the replicas built to hold them. Uniting them would be the culmination of thousands of years of these pieces orbiting the globe!

But back to the dais locations…

We know where two were located, but the Japan piece was stolen from the Waseda University (by Takamoto) but we are not privy as to where it was found. Same thing with the Project Carboneck piece. It was in the labs at Kazakhstan, but no mention as to where it (or the shield) were found.

Soooo….what are your theories? Have I opened a can of worms?

[buckmana]

Originally Posted by dinahcat

The first Stone Dais we are introduced to is in Nepal when Lara and her mother were there. The sword was already there and all in one piece (or it was a replica with at least one real piece – more on this theory later…)

As I understand it, there was not just one sword. Whoever made them made a whole bunch and installed them in daises all over the world. From all appearances, no-one claimed this one. It probably also means there is more Ghalili keys too, but Lara has the only one found.

The swords appear to be taken away with the owners to Avalon. I'm uncertain how Lara can recover the pieces of Excalibur if Arthur supposedly used it to get there. Or maybe it's not the actual one Arthur used, but the broken pieces of another one, given that there is more than one.

The one in the tomb is not a real one at all. It's just a bit of metal forged in the shape of the original. It looks like it's designed to seperate into parts like the real sword.

Originally Posted by dinahcat

We know where two were located, but the Japan piece was stolen from the Waseda University (by Takamoto) but we are not privy as to where it was found. Same thing with the Project Carboneck piece. It was in the labs at Kazakhstan, but no mention as to where it (or the shield) were found.

Takamoto tells us where he found his piece. He said it belonged to a Crusader who used to be a Knight of the Round Table.

The Carbonek piece was found in Lancelot's tomb (his shield is stored nearby).

[Jake-A-Roonie]

Before we get too far into this discussion, I feel I should point out a couple of details that may be forgotten...

Originally Posted by dinahcat

The first Stone Dais we are introduced to is in Nepal when Lara and her mother were there. The sword was already there and all in one piece (or it was a replica with at least one real piece – more on this theory later…) There is no back story as to why this dais is here, or to as why the sword is even there.

As for the dais, Lara had deduced in Arthur's tomb that these daises were "all over the world." Why put a McDonald's on one street corner in particular? Who knows...it just seems like a good location to the real estate department. This probably just seemed convenient to whoever built the temple. As for the sword, notice that there is a dead body lying nearby (right next to the sword's stone) when young Lara discovers the dais. The body still has flesh and clothing, and Lara isn't taken aback by any particular stench, so one would deduce that the body has not been dead long at all. It is possible that this was the owner of the sword who placed it into the slot, but may have simply succumbed to cold and starvation before he could figure out how to activate the dais fully. (Remember, when Lara approaches, the dais is not fully active...she completes the activation by passing near a stone, which responds to her... Then the sword is ready to be touched.) It's also possible that touching the sword to activate the portal -- without correctly activating the stones -- could kill the user. So the person could have died that way.

But enough of that. Too speculative. Let's move on...

Originally Posted by dinahcat

Slight side thought, where were Lara and her mother going? Were they going to that temple anyway? Why would her mother have that key if she was not looking for the sword fragment?

I think the Croft family had no knowledge of the sword. If they did, Amelia would have recognized the sword and perhaps been more cautious about interacting with the portal. I don't think they were going to the temple anyway... There was no landing site for a plane. I guess it's possible that they could be meeting Richard off-site and travelling there on an AT vehicle, but somehow I find it unlikely. Lara or Amelia would likely have commented that "well, this is where we were heading anyway!" Right? After landing, they probably just made their way to the temple because it was visible from the crash site, and it would be a shelter from the cold and snow. And the Ghalali Key was simply a gift from Richard to Amelia... I highly doubt they knew its significance. If they did, it's doubtful Amelia would regularly wear something so priceless.

Originally Posted by dinahcat

We know where two were located, but the Japan piece was stolen from the Waseda University (by Takamoto) but we are not privy as to where it was found.

The pieces seemed to travel with the Knights of the Round Table after the death of Arthur, so perhaps looking into the supposed travels of the knights would provide clues. After all, there are only so many knights, therefore only so many possible locations. As for the Project Carbonek piece, it seems that piece was discovered with Lancelot (or at least his shield). I can see him losing his shield or dropping it, but not a piece of Excalibur. So it would likely have been found with the body that turned out to be Lancelot's. So wherever legend says Lancelot died...

Originally Posted by dinahcat

Soooo….what are your theories? Have I opened a can of worms?

One thing I prefer to think is that the famous Stonehenge is somehow related to the other daises, but...larger. (With it being in England, it would be easy for TR8 to say that Stonehenge is connected with the Arthurian legends, or with Excalibur itself, which Lara says predated Arthur by millennia.) Maybe we'll find out that the rest of the mechanism (the center stone) is a few feet underground or something. If Stonehenge was a larger version of the standard daises, it might also make sense that it could work more than once, ie bring one person into Avalon (Lara) and two people back (Lara & Amelia).

[dinahcat]

Well said, both of you. Thank you for pointing out the Takamodo piece link to a knight...I onlywatched that cutscenen once, and then started skipping.

So I must wonder, then, If 3 of the pieces were found with knights (England, Japan and Kazakhstan) then why was one with Queen Tiwanaku (miles from any civilization)? And where did Rutland get his piece?

BTW, Jake-a-roonie, your theory about Stonehenge matches mine almost exactly! Check out our similar "conspiracy theories" --> http://www.tombraiderforums.com/show...61&postcount=4

[buckmana]

Originally Posted by dinahcat

So I must wonder, then, If 3 of the pieces were found with knights (England, Japan and Kazakhstan) then why was one with Queen Tiwanaku (miles from any civilization)? And where did Rutland get his piece?

I don't know that Tiwanaku ever had a piece. She had a copy of the original.

Rutland never mentions where he got his piece (he says something like "it's not important").
Takamoto - from a Knight of the Round Table.
Carbonek - from Lancelot's tomb.
King Arthur's tomb had one.

Interestingly enough, if you look closely at the bodies in Tiwanku's and Arthur's tombs (it's easier to see with Arthur's after you break the crystal), they're just dummies. Guest of honor is not in residence.

Which suggests they're not dead, just in Avalon. Question is, how does one get back from Avalon?

Again, my theory is that they took their swords to Avalon with them and what Lara has is the broken pieces of another one.

In the original story of King Arthur, he broke the sword from the stone in battle. Merlin then took him to the Lady of the Lake to get Excalibur.

So, maybe (in the context of TRVII), the first sword was broken and Arthur got a second one. Not having the Ghalili key, he would have been unable to repair it. Maybe this is the one Lara reassembles when she acquires all the pieces.

[thevman]

I believe rutland got his piece in africa, the round room you bump him off in could have been a ruined dias room... hence a 4th location the sword belonged to.

[buckmana]

No, Rutland had his piece before he went there.

When he talks to Lara in Bolivia, he shows it to her.

[Valkyrie Glade]

Has anyone noticed that in the tomb of King Arthur, in front of the crystal thing there is a dais where you can put in a sword and beneath the dais is the symbols and drawings for the daises in both Tiwanaku and Nepal. Maybe another transport system? For the British?

Tiwanaku for the Tiwanakuians and Nepal dais for the Himalayans. The one in Arthur's tomb for England?
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[larafan25]

^Yes.

I wonder....if there was more than one sword...than perhaps Lara had pieces from different swords. :/

[Shark_Blade]

Good God this thread is from 2006.